Black in America 4: The New Promised Land -- Silicon Valley (Oakland: school, income)

[18Montclair]

Furthermore, Im glad someone mentioned "NorCal" because when we look at the stats for the 100-mile radius that surrounds the city of SF, we quickly see that the Black Population has actually GROWN and its clear that the vast majority of Blacks who left the Bay area moved to the surrounding metros.

Black Alone 2000
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland 513,561
Sacramento-Arden Arcade-Yuba City 128,073
Stockton 37,689
Salinas 15,050
Modesto 11,521
Merced 8,064
Total Black Alone Population 713,958

Black Alone 2010
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland 484,610
Sacramento 163,296
Stockton 51,744
Modesto 14,721
Salinas 12,785
Merced 9,926
Total Black Alone Population: 737,082

Black Alone Population Change 2000-2010
Stockton +37.8%
Modesto +27.8%
Sacrmento-Arden Arcade-Yuba City +27.3%
Merced +23.5%
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland -5.9%
Salinas -17.7%
Total Black Alone Population Change: +3.3%

And as far as Blacks who are multiracial:

Black Alone or Black Combined with another Race 2000
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland 573,036
Sacramento-Arden Arcade-Yuba City 147,978
Stockton 42,459
Salinas 17,895
Modesto 14,187
Merced 9,418
Total Black Alone or Black combined with another Race: 804,973

Black Alone & Combined with another Race 2010
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland 572,204
Sacramento-Arden Arcade-Yuba Ciy 163,296
Stockton 61,726
Modesto 19,606
Salinas 16,554
Merced 12,189
Total Black Alone or Black combined with another Race: 845,575

Black Alone or Black Combined with another Race Population Change 2000-2010
Stockton +45.2%
Modesto +35.7%
Merced +29.4%
Sacramento-Arden Arcade-Yuba City +10.8%
San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland -0.1%
Salinas -11.7%
Total Black Alone or Black Combined with another Race Population Change: +5.0%

845,000 Blacks live within 100 miles of SF, up 5% from the past 10 years.

Dont ever tell me again about NorCal's shrinking anything.

[18Montclair]

We dont do badly at all in this comparison vs 2 other large Metros with far larger Black populations than here

Metro Atlanta with 100+ Black Households Earning $200,000+ Annually
Atlanta 1,704
Roswell 209
Johns Creek 202
Mableton 181
East Point 181
North Atlanta 161
Sandy Springs 148
Smyrna 131
Alpharetta 129
Milton 122
North Druid Hills 100

DFW Metroplex Cities with 100+ Black Households Earning $200,000+ Annually
Dallas 885
Ft Worth 643
DeSoto 579
Grand Prarie 418
Plano 362
Arlington 348
Frisco 320
Cedar Hill 307
Allen 203
McKinney 196
Mesquite 168
Garland 167
Lewisville 155
Carrollton 143
Irving 108
Lancaster 108
Rowlett 103

SF Bay Area Cities with 100+ Black Households Earning $200,000+ Annually
Oakland 1,251
San Jose 641
San Francisco 529
Antioch 428
Vallejo 333
Fairfield 255
Richmond 251
Hercules 239
Hayward 216
Fremont 191
San Ramon 186
Brentwood 182
San Leandro 181
Pittsburg 159
Dublin 120
American Canyon 110

Easy Analytic Software, Inc. (EASI) is the source of all updated estimates. All other data are derived from the US Census and other official government sources.

All estimates are as of 4/1/2010 unless otherwise stated.

[nyte3k]

I think I should chime in here. I'm black and live in Atlanta, and have been a software engineer for the past few years. My current position pays just a tad(about $5k - $10k) less than what I was offered with some SF positions.

Also as black as Atlanta is, I am still one of the few blacks that I encounter in this industry in what is supposedly the "black mecca". As a matter of fact, I am the ONLY black software engineer at my current workplace. I don't think the problem is 100% racism in any of these environments both in SV and in other cities. I think the problem is that blacks in general DO NOT go the math/science route with their college education or careers. When I attended an iPhone/Cocoa developer meetup a year ago that had about 400 people there, I would say there were probably 5 blacks total there.

And like someone displayed above, the black population in Atlanta is also dropping. I live in a pretty nice area (Buckhead) of Atlanta, and yes I have noticed a decline in the black population here. But it's not a bad thing. Atlanta was and is majority black, and I would rather it be more diverse with other races. And honestly, the black people that are leaving the actual city limits is due to the city demolishing all of the crappy federal housing units that used to be here. We actually do not have anymore public housing in this city. The decent black people still live and move to the city and the northern suburbs(Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Johns Creek, etc), while the poorer african americans have either gone to the south metro area(Clayton County), left the city entirely, or live in the few pockets that are lower income in the the city limits.

I think Michael Arrington's post on how CNN may have sensationalized and skewed the telecast is a good read as well: http://uncrunched.com/2011/10/28/oh-****-im-a-racist/ (broken link)

At the end of the day, yes people do tend to gravitate toward and feel more comfortable around similar people to them, but I don't think the other issue of blacks simply not into tech/science/math as a whole and not living in urban (primarily expensive) ares can be ignored. And being an Atlanta native I can say this: To think that you can move to a city like Atlanta and expect to progress quicker in the tech world is false. What you may gain in the comfort of being amongst your peers, you lose with the lack of connections that exist primarily in SV, the potential possibility of being stuck in the black world (in other words, difficult to get exposure outside the black community when you tend to associate with), and lets be honest, this is still the South, where you still see the occasional confederate flag, and actually get treated badly by other blacks(like cops, security guards, etc) who act funny when you happen to be walking into a nice store.

I think for blacks to succeed in SV, we need to diversify our circle of friends. We need to put an importance of math and science in our community and we need to one-up our counterparts. If we don't feel we have a face in SV and don't think it's expected for us to be there or thrive there, then we need to do what it takes to match and exceed others in Silicon Valley, until we feel we are appropriately represented. And I don't mean representation based on handouts or sympathy, i'm referring to being represented because we actually have great ideas and deserve to be there!

[jade408]

I work of a marketing consulting company that is more on the techy side of things. We aren't as diverse as I'd like. There are very few women in the company. And mostly white and male. We don't have many asian people as well, but I will call this a function of being founded/based in the Southeast. But outside of our technical architect team, most of our employees are liberal arts people.

The challenging thing is that, in Silicon Valley, even the non technical roles aren't very diverse. In fact, people are almost pigeon-holed based on ethnicity. Asian = engineers. Marketing and sales = white. And senior management = white. For all of the Asian people in Silicon Valley, how often do you see an Asian CEO or other C-Level job. How about VP of Sales or Marketing? Are Asian people really getting funding? I don't think so. This is a myth. Most funding goes to white males, and they hire chinese, taiwanese and indian engineers.

Something else is going on. It is partly a function of networks, but that can't be it.

[sacramento916]

yeahthatguy - I do not think there is widespread institutional racism in Silicon Valley, but I think there is a bias against African American entrepreneurs due to their small numbers and also negative stereotypes against AA's. However, much of this is also due to failures in the Black community. Go to any engineering school, their classes are filled with Asians and Whites. In CA, they would be 90% Asian.

Where are the Black engineers? They are a very miniscule number. So of course, in Silicon Valley, which is dominated by engineers, Blacks will be sorely underrepresented.

If more Blacks got into engineering, they may be able to establish more of a presence in technology. However, their numbers are too limited, that they are merely a drop in the ocean. Thousands of white and asian startups seek funding, but only a handful get it. So if you are a Black techie, part of a minority comprising less than 1% of engineers, the chances of you getting funding and representing your race is infinitely smaller.

The bottom line is: More Blacks need to focus on school and get into engineering. Bottom line. Nothing else will change the dynamics, and I don't think any of the complaining will change the biases that people have.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by jade408

The challenging thing is that, in Silicon Valley, even the non technical roles aren't very diverse. In fact, people are almost pigeon-holed based on ethnicity. Asian = engineers. Marketing and sales = white. And senior management = white. For all of the Asian people in Silicon Valley, how often do you see an Asian CEO or other C-Level job. How about VP of Sales or Marketing? Are Asian people really getting funding? I don't think so. This is a myth. Most funding goes to white males, and they hire chinese, taiwanese and indian engineers.

Something else is going on. It is partly a function of networks, but that can't be it.

I think alot of it is skillsets combined with stereotypes.

Whites are thought best fit for "social" (sales , marketing etc) and leadership roles while asians probably stereotyped to be "anti-social", "nerdy" engineers.

Racism or not there is some truth to it. Asian cultures are not exactly known for producing charismatic, social types. Asian cultures should inculcate more rounded children.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by BayDude

I think alot of it is skillsets combined with stereotypes.

Whites are thought best fit for "social" (sales , marketing etc) and leadership roles while asians probably stereotyped to be "anti-social", "nerdy" engineers.

Racism or not there is some truth to it. Asian cultures are not exactly known for producing charismatic, social types. Asian cultures should inculcate more rounded children.

I very briefly worked for a Chinese company. They acquired another company so they could add white people to the leadership team. I worked for a company founded by an middle eastern name. He had a "fake" American name ala John Smith that he used to sign up for services etc. He also forcefully encouraged anyone with an "ethnic" name to get a more "western" name. (You wouldn't believe some of the names that came out.) Everyone was welcome at the company, provided you were willing to form a new identity with an American name. I found ridiculous and disappointing at the same time.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by sacramento916

yeahthatguy - I do not think there is widespread institutional racism in Silicon Valley, but I think there is a bias against African American entrepreneurs due to their small numbers and also negative stereotypes against AA's. However, much of this is also due to failures in the Black community. Go to any engineering school, their classes are filled with Asians and Whites. In CA, they would be 90% Asian.

Where are the Black engineers? They are a very miniscule number. So of course, in Silicon Valley, which is dominated by engineers, Blacks will be sorely underrepresented.

If more Blacks got into engineering, they may be able to establish more of a presence in technology. However, their numbers are too limited, that they are merely a drop in the ocean. Thousands of white and asian startups seek funding, but only a handful get it. So if you are a Black techie, part of a minority comprising less than 1% of engineers, the chances of you getting funding and representing your race is infinitely smaller.

The bottom line is: More Blacks need to focus on school and get into engineering. Bottom line. Nothing else will change the dynamics, and I don't think any of the complaining will change the biases that people have.

No one is complaining.. I understood this some time ago.. My solution : work the corporate hustle.. Trade my a$$ off in markets and generate my own capital to fund my venture... No VCs needed. I understand statistics and % of a % of a % equation .. i.e - only a small % of blacks are in engineering .. only a small % of that group is in cali .. and so on and so forth and the statistics that will show from that (not many because, as I said, there aren't many tech companies that 'open' their books) ...

My issue is .. once you have made it .. graduated from the top school .. graduated with honors.. have your masters degree and come to the Valley.. ace interviews.. how much of not getting hired is a matter of your skin color.. once hired, what is the perception of your ability to do work? .. oh he's black, he doesn't know sh*t .. meanwhile you are fixing the crappy code of asian/white junior engineers .. pointing out management mistakes on your first day...

This is the issue... Among friends I went to school w/ who note this too .. A white friend's reflection.. "yeah man I don't understand it .. I mean, not many black people go into engineering much less the hardest engineering degree out there : electrical/computer engineering.. you went to the top school and stuck w/ it .. even completed your b.s in 3 years .. did masters in 1 .... my thinking, if a black kid does that (against the stats/odds) .. he must be more hardcore than the white kid who just 'rolled into it'.."...

But this logic doesn't transmit.. they look at your skin color and assume you went to the crappiest school .. got crap grades and just got in from AA .. (once you're hired) .. During the hiring process I've seen many baffled as they noted my credentials on my resume.. you went to X ? .. you took OS/X ? .. then comes the 'stomp the engineer x10'... when that fails, i tend to just get this look .. yeah, you're not a 'fit' for a time .. because of skin color..

Is what it is ... I choose my degree because race is lessor of a factor in your success than other degrees.. so I am happy for that.. i didn't expect as much race based judgement as I have received as I felt engineering was mainly a meritocracy (well in school at least ...) .. in the valley it is much difference.

Never once complained. Is what it is .. I game the system for my benefit and i am just noting, as it pertains to the thread subject, the valley is most definitely not the promise land for black america.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

This is yet another example of you and others holding the Bay Area to a different standard to everywhere else.



So when Blacks in other major urban cities 'gtfo dodge' and evacuate to new suburbs , its totally acceptable, but for the Bay Area its a huge disgrace*yawns*

No, I am noting the 'reasons' why they leave 'the bay area'.. if you want me to go into the reasons why they left crazy chicago, i'd be more than happy to highlight that for you... You like to speak on relative terms w/o defining the scope/causal relationships/adjusting for differing variables/circumstances .. So, I draw straw to you frequent re-direction of issues off California to elsewhere..

There aren't great economic opportunities... because one place is worse than 'the bay area' doesn't mean that the 'bay area' still isn't horrible.. Relativity doesn't matter as you aren't getting at the 'driving' forces for the movement... You are just citing stale and random statistics w/o any qualitative analysis and incorrect relative comparisons... and all of the silly areas you mentioned are bigger and have more african americans in them than oakland.. a nice little thing you like to forget when posting graphs and data.. AGAIN, learn how to 'adjust' your data and 'understand' it.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

We dont do badly at all in this comparison vs 2 other large Metros with far larger Black populations than here

Metro Atlanta with 100+ Black Households Earning $200,000+ Annually
Atlanta 1,704
Roswell 209
Johns Creek 202
Mableton 181
East Point 181
North Atlanta 161
Sandy Springs 148
Smyrna 131
Alpharetta 129
Milton 122
North Druid Hills 100

DFW Metroplex Cities with 100+ Black Households Earning $200,000+ Annually
Dallas 885
Ft Worth 643
DeSoto 579
Grand Prarie 418
Plano 362
Arlington 348
Frisco 320
Cedar Hill 307
Allen 203
McKinney 196
Mesquite 168
Garland 167
Lewisville 155
Carrollton 143
Irving 108
Lancaster 108
Rowlett 103

SF Bay Area Cities with 100+ Black Households Earning $200,000+ Annually
Oakland 1,251
San Jose 641
San Francisco 529
Antioch 428
Vallejo 333
Fairfield 255
Richmond 251
Hercules 239
Hayward 216
Fremont 191
San Ramon 186
Brentwood 182
San Leandro 181
Pittsburg 159
Dublin 120
American Canyon 110

Easy Analytic Software, Inc. (EASI) is the source of all updated estimates. All other data are derived from the US Census and other official government sources.

All estimates are as of 4/1/2010 unless otherwise stated.

More useless b.s data w/ no adjustment.