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have you been to West Oakland or North Oakland lately? Downtown? It's already taken place. You can't drive through there without having to steer your car away from their bicycles, which they love to ride in the middle of traffic. The only part of Oakland they haven't managed to take over is in the Deep East.
It's happened in parts of those areas but not everywhere. It also certainly hasn't happened all over the city except in deep east. Some areas have always been what some may refer to as yuppified but it's not the same as current residents were not displaced and urban blight or near blight was never really a problem. Grand Lake, Montclair, Rockridge, Temescal, Lincoln Heights and Maxwell Park are good examples of this. Some may dispute MP though. Oakland isn't two extremes by any means.
have you been to West Oakland or North Oakland lately? Downtown? It's already taken place. You can't drive through there without having to steer your car away from their bicycles, which they love to ride in the middle of traffic. The only part of Oakland they haven't managed to take over is in the Deep East.
Unless there's a bike lane you're supposed to ride in the street, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk. And hey car drivers, STOP DRIVING AND PARKING IN THE ****ING BIKE LANES! Drives me nuts when they do this.
Now you're saying you believe that all high crime cities are the same? Do you really not see the ignorance in that statement?
No I'm not saying that at all, clearly I would never equate a city like New Orleans to Oakland. Just saying Oakland is not some unique case when it comes to high crime cities. It has its good parts, its bad parts, and most crime is confined the bad parts but it does have a higher proportion of crime and bad parts comparitively. That statement there could be said of most high crime cities. So in that sense Oakland isn't some special case that some of you like to pretend it is.
No I'm not saying that at all, clearly I would never equate a city like New Orleans to Oakland. Just saying Oakland is not some unique case when it comes to high crime cities. It has its good parts, its bad parts, and most crime is confined the bad parts but it does have a higher proportion of crime and bad parts comparitively. That statement there could be said of most high crime cities. So in that sense Oakland isn't some special case that some of you like to pretend it is.
How many "High Crime" cities completely encircle another city with almost zero crime and some of the top public schools in the State?
The city of Oakland 100% surrounds the city of Piedmont... no way to get to Piedmont without going through Oakland unless by Helicopter.
- Threads in which the intention is to deride only Oakland for its crime. The goal of these threads are usuaully to hold the city in contempt, because of it's crime.
In this case, crime happens in all cities, especially in big cities. If the thread was innocently about crime itself, why single out one city? The obvious answer is pure hostility towards Oakland.
It's pretty simple actually. Oakland is the largest city in the Bay Area with the most problems. Per capita places like Richmond or East Palo Alto may be worse but Oakland is much bigger and has a similarly high crime rate. That's probably why it gets brought up more often, stuff simply happens in the city more often. Yes crime happens in all cities but it happens more often in Oakland.
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- Threads that compare crime in Oakland to crime in other cities, based on the incompletely analysis of the FBI crime statistics. Of course, for the purpose of choosing "most", "more", "3x more likely" dangerous cities.
In this case, crime in Oakland, or crime in every city is different. Crime rates differ far within cities, than between them. Thus, crime-risk factors in Oakland can differ from crime-risk factors in other cities. The FBI data was not meant to be used as a ranking or comparison.
Then what is the purpose of the FBI Data? Usually lists/rankings are for comparative purposes. What's funny is that you sure don't mind showing lists where Oakland ranks well in something but heaven forbid anyone ever bring up lists where it ranks bad.
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I can be sensitive to ignorance.
As well as any criticisms of Oakland.
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If I may, I'll ask you a question.
Why are you so persistent in critizing Oakland?
Persistent? I don't even talk about Oakland that often. I have talked about Oakland in this thread as well as the Warriors one recently. If you look through my post history you can see Oakland really isn't something i discuss. I don't really post as often anymore but overall I haven't been constantly bashing Oakland, but clearly you're sensitive to it. I've actually defended the city in the past but lately it seems like some people can't handle anything negative being said about Oakland. Which is odd because it's not like Mr Fantastic is in here stirring the pot like he used to.
I made a statement in this thread, people responded, and it continued from there. I'm just doing the same thing everyone else is in this thread including yourself.
You're trying to tell me I'm so persistent about critcizing Oakland yet 90% of your posts are nothing but either praise or defending Oakland. Can you not talk about other places? How is anyone suppose to feel you have any objectivity when nearly all of your posts are either praising Oakland or defending it against any criticism?
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In all, I feel as if people do not really care what you think, they just correct you when they feel like doing it. Saying "thank you" would be most appreciated.
That's a pretty common attitude here in the Bay Area. They think when they offer a different opinion from one they don't agree with they are "correcting" the person and doing them a favor. And of course they don't like to hear different opinions, it's just like one giant group think circle jerk here and SOME of the Oakland homers put it on display pretty well on this forum.
How many "High Crime" cities completely encircle another city with almost zero crime and some of the top public schools in the State?
The city of Oakland 100% surrounds the city of Piedmont... no way to get to Piedmont without going through Oakland unless by Helicopter.
Well I guess at one point in time you probably could have said LA but of course it really isn't considered a high crime city anymore overall. How many cities can you say that about at all? How many cities actually encircle another city completely? Not that many I'm aware of. So that is a pretty bad point to try to differentiate it from other high crime cities since it's something unique to all cities. Plus it's not like people have to go through the bad parts of Oakland to get to Piedmont.
Do you think the following statement is true about Oakland, New Orleans, Baltimore, and other cities that make the high crime lists?
"It has its good parts, its bad parts, and most crime is confined to the bad parts but it does have a higher proportion of crime and bad parts comparatively."
No I'm not saying that at all, clearly I would never equate a city like New Orleans to Oakland. Just saying Oakland is not some unique case when it comes to high crime cities. It has its good parts, its bad parts, and most crime is confined the bad parts but it does have a higher proportion of crime and bad parts comparitively. That statement there could be said of most high crime cities. So in that sense Oakland isn't some special case that some of you like to pretend it is.
I'm not pretending that the Oakland deals with different issues than other high-crime cities to different extremes, I know it does. Gary, Indiana for example was ranked #9 on the top 25 FBI list last year and Oakland was ranked #5. If I were to take this list the way most people take it, I'd assume that this means that Oakland and Gary are similarly crappy places to live and that Oakland is even a little crappier. However, the case being that my family happens to be from there and that I've been there numerous times, I'm actually familiar with both cities... Oakland in no way shape or form resembles Gary Indiana. Gary Indiana has not had an economy for over forty years... it is the textbook definition of a rust-belt city. It has lost the majority of it's population; there are multiple vacant homes almost literally on every street. It's downtown is literally in shambles; the majority of it is boarded-up. The city has lost so much of its child population that the city struggles to even fill the schools that have not been shut down; Gary West Side High - which once held over 5,000 students - had to assimilate a middle school population just to make sure all of the school was being used. Gary's tax-base is almost exclusively people over the age of 50, and the only reason most of them stay is because they still know their old neighbors and remember a time when Gary was a thriving city and poised to be one of Indiana's best cities instead of its absolute worst.
Other than losing students (though this is a larger urban Bay Area phenomenon), Oakland deals with none of the above issues. On the contrary, it is a city on the rise. And yet, most people will take one look at the FBI list and say, "SEE? Oakland is a West Coast Gary Indiana" when in reality the only thing they share in common is a crime-rate. That is why the FBI Data is not meant to be used as a comparison... the crime rate does not tell you anything about the actual state of the city. The most one can infer from them is that the city has high-crime areas, which is indeed true of every city on the list. People who haven't been to any of these places, however, will read far more into this list than what is actually there.
So no, I'm not "pretending" anything. Crime is far from the only factor that makes a neighborhood unlivable, and that is why I find your argument that a high-crime neighborhood in Oakland is no different than a high-crime neighborhood in "any of the other cities on the list" completely ludicrous. There is nowhere - I repeat, nowhere - in the city of Oakland that resembles the bad areas of Gary. Not even Deep East Oakland.
This even goes for areas within Oakland... nobody is going to tell you with a straight face that Fruitvale and Deep East Oakland are equally bad despite having nearly the same murder rate... a lot of people would kill to live there instead of in the Deep, and that's because the crime-rate is not telling the whole story. This point seems to have been lost on you the first time around though so perhaps I'm wasting my time.
Last edited by Nineties Flava; 12-17-2011 at 06:07 PM..
How many "High Crime" cities completely encircle another city with almost zero crime and some of the top public schools in the State?
The city of Oakland 100% surrounds the city of Piedmont... no way to get to Piedmont without going through Oakland unless by Helicopter.
Agreed. A similar situation exist with Alameda. Unless one takes a fairy from Sf or the peninsula somewhere, it's not possible to get to Alameda without going through Oakland.
I'm not pretending that the Oakland deals with different issues than other high-crime cities to different extremes, I know it does. Gary, Indiana for example was ranked #9 on the top 25 FBI list last year and Oakland was ranked #5. If I were to take this list the way most people take it, I'd assume that this means that Oakland and Gary are similarly crappy places to live and that Oakland is even a little crappier. However, the case being that my family happens to be from there and that I've been there numerous times, I'm actually familiar with both cities... Oakland in no way shape or form resembles Gary Indiana. Gary Indiana has not had an economy for over forty years... it is the textbook definition of a rust-belt city. It has lost the majority of it's population; there are multiple vacant homes almost literally on every street. It's downtown is literally in shambles; the majority of it is boarded-up. The city has lost so much of its child population that the city struggles to even fill the schools that have not been shut down; Gary West Side High - which once held over 5,000 students - had to assimilate a middle school population just to make sure all of the school was being used. Gary's tax-base is almost exclusively people over the age of 50, and the only reason most of them stay is because they still know their old neighbors and remember a time when Gary was a thriving city and poised to be one of Indiana's best cities instead of its absolute worst.
Other than losing students (though this is a larger urban Bay Area phenomenon), Oakland deals with none of the above issues. On the contrary, it is a city on the rise. And yet, most people will take one look at the FBI list and say, "SEE? Oakland is a West Coast Gary Indiana" when in reality the only thing they share in common is a crime-rate. That is why the FBI Data is not meant to be used as a comparison... the crime rate does not tell you anything about the actual state of the city. The most one can infer from them is that the city has high-crime areas, which is indeed true of every city on the list. People who haven't been to any of these places, however, will read far more into this list than what is actually there.
So no, I'm not "pretending" anything. Crime is far from the only factor that makes a neighborhood unlivable, and that is why I find your argument that a high-crime neighborhood in Oakland is no different than a high-crime neighborhood in "any of the other cities on the list" completely ludicrous. There is nowhere - I repeat, nowhere - in the city of Oakland that resembles the bad areas of Gary. Not even Deep East Oakland.
This even goes for areas within Oakland... nobody is going to tell you with a straight face that Fruitvale and Deep East Oakland are equally bad despite having nearly the same murder rate... a lot of people would kill to live there instead of in the Deep, and that's because the crime-rate is not telling the whole story. This point seems to have been lost on you the first time around though so perhaps I'm wasting my time.
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