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Old 12-03-2011, 06:04 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,915 posts, read 6,768,206 times
Reputation: 2929

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
It IS on the same level of these places when it comes to violence. Just look at the top 10 list for most violent cities, Oakland is there with these cities with the exception of South Central LA since it's not an actual city. If you look at the stats on here it has an even worse crime rate than Compton. Of course not all of Oakland is bad though but it has a reputation for a reason. It's amusing on here on how some of the homers always try to down play the level and types of crime in Oakland that other cities simply don't see nearly as often. Considering how wealthy and educated the Bay Area is, it has quite a lot of crime.
The ghettos in Baltimore/Detroit/New Orleans/etc. aren't just known for their violence, they're known for literally being ghettoized. Ghetto neighborhoods in those cities are almost always racially homogenous, have no access to amenities whatsoever and are literally ignored by the rest of the city. There are very, very few neighborhoods in Oakland that qualify as that level of ghettoized... Oakland indeed has the violence, but the vast majority of it does not operate like a post-apocalyptic movie set either.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
10,336 posts, read 13,753,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
The ghettos in Baltimore/Detroit/New Orleans/etc. aren't just known for their violence, they're known for literally being ghettoized. Ghetto neighborhoods in those cities are almost always racially homogenous, have no access to amenities whatsoever and are literally ignored by the rest of the city. There are very, very few neighborhoods in Oakland that qualify as that level of ghettoized... Oakland indeed has the violence, but the vast majority of it does not operate like a post-apocalyptic movie set either.
I'm just curious have you ever been to any of those cities you mentioned and if you have how much time have you actually spent there? So you're suggesting the "vast majority" of New Orleans "operates like some post apocalyptic movie set"? Clearly you've never been there because it offers a lot more as a city than Oakland does IMO .

Is just funny how sensitive some people here are to the stereotyping of Oakland yet turn around and do that for other cities in some attempt to make Oakland seem so much better of a city. It may not be the worst but it belongs in the same category as those high crime cities, a good chunk of it is pretty ghetto and run down.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,915 posts, read 6,768,206 times
Reputation: 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
I'm just curious have you ever been to any of those cities you mentioned and if you have how much time have you actually spent there? So you're suggesting the "vast majority" of New Orleans "operates like some post apocalyptic movie set"? Clearly you've never been there because it offers a lot more as a city than Oakland does IMO .

Is just funny how sensitive some people here are to the stereotyping of Oakland yet turn around and do that for other cities in some attempt to make Oakland seem so much better of a city. It may not be the worst but it belongs in the same category as those high crime cities, a good chunk of it is pretty ghetto and run down.
I've been to Baltimore and New Orleans. Did I say most of New Orleans was a post apocalyptic movie set? I said that most of the ghettos in New Orleans could be described like that, and to a much larger extent than the ones in Oakland. I was just in New Orleans three months ago and want to go back there for college... that doesn't sugar-coat how truly depressing it is to be in NOLA's ghettos though.

I also liked Baltimore a lot when I was there, but again, the ghettos are extremely depressed... more so than what I'm used to in Oakland barring Deep East Oakland and one or two sections of West Oakland. You don't find the kind of large-scale outright abandonment and barren landscapes in Oakland that you do in the above two cities... you're free to disagree but I am in fact speaking from personal experience.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:18 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
10,336 posts, read 13,753,948 times
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Well I guess Oakland's ghettos "look" better but the violence is just as bad simply put. Considering Oakland has more wealthy areas than these cities yet has a similar crime rate says something about how bad it's bad areas are IMO.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:20 PM
 
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:38 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,915 posts, read 6,768,206 times
Reputation: 2929
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Well I guess Oakland's ghettos "look" better but the violence is just as bad simply put. Considering Oakland has more wealthy areas than these cities yet has a similar crime rate says something about how bad it's bad areas are IMO.

As I said in the first response, it's not just about looks, it's about increased ghettoization and increased marginalization. The reason why the crime rate in Oakland is so pronounced is because the drug game is much more lucrative thanks to the large amount of wealth throughout the Bay Area and the more care-free attitude towards (using) drugs. The crime rate doesn't say anything about how marginalized or segregated a neighborhood is, it only tells us about the crime. Knowing Oakland well, most of the "ghetto" neighborhoods in Oakland are not ghettos in the traditional sense of the word, they're strictly labeled ghettos based on the crime. The ghettos in cities like Baltimore and New Orleans have high crime on top of being highly segregated, depressed local economies, terrible services, etc... a neighborhood like Fruitvale for example is not segregated or depressed economically - its businesses are thriving right now - and it still gets the basic services the rich neighborhoods get (street cleaning, public transit, etc) but it has some of the worst gang violence in the Bay Area. That kind of neighborhood doesn't exist in Baltimore or in plenty of other cities for that matter.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
3,068 posts, read 2,454,488 times
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MY VIOLENT CITY IS LESS VIOLENT THAN YOURS!!!!1one

sav858 would argue with a brick wall
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
25,096 posts, read 32,573,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
As I said in the first response, it's not just about looks, it's about increased ghettoization and increased marginalization. The reason why the crime rate in Oakland is so pronounced is because the drug game is much more lucrative thanks to the large amount of wealth throughout the Bay Area and the more care-free attitude towards (using) drugs. The crime rate doesn't say anything about how marginalized or segregated a neighborhood is, it only tells us about the crime. Knowing Oakland well, most of the "ghetto" neighborhoods in Oakland are not ghettos in the traditional sense of the word, they're strictly labeled ghettos based on the crime. The ghettos in cities like Baltimore and New Orleans have high crime on top of being highly segregated, depressed local economies, terrible services, etc... a neighborhood like Fruitvale for example is not segregated or depressed economically - its businesses are thriving right now - and it still gets the basic services the rich neighborhoods get (street cleaning, public transit, etc) but it has some of the worst gang violence in the Bay Area. That kind of neighborhood doesn't exist in Baltimore or in plenty of other cities for that matter.
This is a great assessment.

I dont think anyone is denying that Oakland has a crime problem because we do, but when countless Oaklanders on this forum and elsewhere have stated time after time that crime does not touch their daily lives at all because we live in and spend our time in neighborhoods that are relatively safe, vibrant and not ghetto, it seems to me that many out-of-towners dont comprehend that its possible.

And even in many areas that are considered 'ghetto' are still livable and have a strong sense of community.

And even in many areas that are considered 'ghetto' and are high crime, better than 99% of the time, your days and nights are quite mundane.

I know cause Ive lived in every socio-economic extreme of this city.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
25,096 posts, read 32,573,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Well I guess Oakland's ghettos "look" better but the violence is just as bad simply put. Considering Oakland has more wealthy areas than these cities yet has a similar crime rate says something about how bad it's bad areas are IMO.
Also a fair assessment.

Its very interesting that the area along International Bl from oh Seminary down to 73rd seems to be bursting at the seams with all sorts of new businesses all the time, almost all mom-n-pop establishments. That is a stark contrast from when I was a kid and that whole stretch was boarded up. Even the residential neighborhoods that surround that corridor are better kept, neater, homes more attended to.

But the crime rate in that specific area has not declined to match the kind of positive change we've seen there. For the life of me, I dont know what to do about it.

Its all quite fascinating.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:56 PM
 
Location: South Korea
5,245 posts, read 6,759,669 times
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Nobody's saying Oakland doesn't have way too much crime, we're just saying it's very concentrated in areas that are easily avoided. People from outside the Bay Area don't get how places like SF and Oakland have very concentrated crappy areas where one block can be totally different from the next block. It's not like that in other parts of the US, like Chicago where the crappy areas stretch on for miles and miles and miles. I'd say Chicago is about 2/3rds crap areas that aren't worth spending time in, whereas in Oakland I'd say at least 50% of the city is nice middle class and upper middle class areas, 20% is really crappy, and the rest is kind of in between but generally decent. But people from out of town think "oh gee Oakland is just one big thug-infested ghetto with anarchist rioters everywhere." Stay away if you're scared, we don't give a ****. The lines for capicolla and handmade pasta at Market Hall are long enough.
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