multiple questions about moving to San Francisco (Oakland, Daly City: condos, houses)

[mayorhaggar]

Originally Posted by xinyun

Thanks for all the information, Mayorhagger. How long will it take to cover all the areas I'd like to see according to your suggested rounte? I plan on one day and get back to SF by 6 or 7pm-ish. I just want to get a feel about these areas, so walking is the best way unless the route takes up too much time. I understand it depends on many factors, but a general idea will be helpful.

You could easily do it in an afternoon if you were doing Rockridge to Piedmont Ave then taking BART or a bus down to Lake Merritt.

[goldenchild08]

I'm from San Francisco but live on the East Coast. I prefer the seasons we have on the East Coast because I like the switch up every three months of different weather. I also have hella clothes for every season and it feels good wearing shorts in the summer and wearing all different types of warm clothes in the winter. In SF, you basically can wear what ever you want all year round because it never gets too hot or too cold. Everyday of the year in SF is like one of those spring/fall days on the East Coast where the day starts out pretty cold in the 40's or 50's and warms up to the low to mid 60's to 70's and cools down again at night. Most people dress like its fall or spring all year round. Only crazy White people wear shorts in SF though. Many SF natives wear t-shirts all year round while others may wear hoodies or even heavy jackets like parkas everyday of the year. The peacoat is a classic piece of outerwear for many folks in SF because everyday is like a day on the docks being that SF is surrounded by water on three sides. If you are from NYC you will probably miss comfortably wearing seasonal clothing and how weather changes like clock work every three months. Especially since NYC is inarguably more fashion-conscious than SF. You will probably miss summer heatwaves and snowstorms. However, SF's unique climate and beautiful scenery is spectacularly unique. If you move there, you will learn to take both for granted soon enough.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by goldenchild08

In SF, you basically can wear what ever you want all year round

Freedom to do as one pleases is good. Including freedom from being held hostage by oppressive weather.

[Jasmine658]

It was 75 here today, so was in my shorts & flip flops. We flew off to Rockies for winter holiday, played in snow for a week of winter fun, and that was good enough for us. Don't miss shoveling snow like tried when living north of NYC one year, and don't miss the 113 degree days for 10 days in a row where I grew up in TX. Love the SF bay area!

[rkwalton]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Freedom to do as one pleases is good. Including freedom from being held hostage by oppressive weather.

I agree!

Thank goodness! I spent years living abroad where there was a distinct four seasons, including monsoons, humid summers and cold winters. I learned to ski, but that was about all that was awesome. Well, that and the BEAUTIFUL autumn leaves. Then I spent one of the worst winters of my life in NYC last year. It was just cold and snowy and ugh.

That's okay. I can fly back to NYC every few weeks and be just f$%kin' fine living in the Bay Area.

Keep the icky weather, please. I like being able to wear nothing heavier than a hoodie most days.

[gone down south]

"I love seasons too much."
"Me too - that's why I live somewhere that skips the sh***y ones" - Daniel Tosh.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by xinyun

I am exploring the potential of moving to San Francisco from NYC. The factors I am considering are – living car-free life, job market, climate and cultural life. After reading many threads here, I have some ideas of how life could be different in SF from NYC. I am hoping to get a better understanding of living in SF before making a final decision. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

The threads here provide valuable information about public transportation in SF. It seems I will be OK without a car if I live in the areas of SF that are served by BART and/or Muni. Since NYC subway system extends to other boroughs, commuting home from Manhattan at night is not an issue. Could it be difficult/unsafe in this case if I don’t live in areas other than SF, such as East Bay? What are the areas in SF and outside of SF that are suitable to have a car-free life – has to be a safe neighborhood for a single woman?

The subway system definitely isn't as all-encompassing as NYC or Boston. The BART is great if you live in Oakland or Berkeley and need to commute into SF, or vice-versa; they're also extending regular service into San Jose, and so at that point, you'll be able to pretty easily commute between SF and San Jose, as well. In San Francisco, you can use the bus or cabs to get around easily.

For most of the time I was in SF, I lived in the Inner Richmond and worked in Union Square. I took the 38 bus, and it got me from my place to Union Square in about 20 minutes.

If you are in SF proper, then the Castro, Inner Richmond, Outer Richmond, Nob Hill, Russian Hill, Seacliff, Pacific Heights, Dolores, or the Sunset are all perfectly safe areas. I don't care what anyone says, I wouldn't recommend a single woman living alone in the Mission District; I have female hipster friends who insist it's safe... I mean, they were only mugged once... and he probably really needed the money... etc.

My 24-year old sister took my apartment when I moved to Beverly Hills, and she hasn't had any issues at all commuting or walking around.

If you moved to the Lake Merritt area of Oakland or around the Ashby BART, you'd also be fine. Downtown Oakland is totally safe during the morning, day, and up till 9 or 10pm; after that, it's still pretty safe - my best friend and his girlfriend live by Lake Merritt, and she walks home from the 19th St. BART station to Lake Merritt after 10 frequently.

I am Asian, so being able to shop at Asian grocery stores without having to drive is important. Is it common that people carry groceries on subway and buses in SF, as you often see in NYC?

Yup, very common. Lots of SF residents don't have cars, and public transit is their main way of getting groceries back home.

There are Asian grocers all over SF, especially in Chinatown, the Richmond District, and the Sunset.

I lived right by Clement Street in The Mission, and there were a number of Chinese and Vietnamese grocers all along the street. There are Korean grocers all along Geary, and a few Japanese grocers in Japantown.

In the Sunset, you have a couple dozen Asian grocers all along Irving St. and plenty more down smaller streets. Chinatown has lots on Stockton St. If they make it back home, you'll be able to find it in SF.

Oakland's Chinatown has tons of Chinese and Viet grocers and probably the cheapest good-quality produce you'll ever see in a major metro of the US. There is a small strip of Korean restaurants and businesses and a few really good Korean grocers.

There are some really good ones in Berkeley, too. There's a whole shopping center called the Pacific East Mall that's on the Richmond/El Cerrito border that's pretty awesome, but may be a bit tricker to get to via bus.

For those moving from areas with four seasons, do you miss fall foliage

No; there's plenty of fall foliage in SF and the East Bay!

or snow around Christmas,

Absolutely not.

or get tired of year-round temperature being the same in Bay area?

Nope It does fluctuate season-to-season, especially in the East Bay.

Are people in Bay area friendlier than New Yorkers in general (I am sick of rude and careless people on subway in NYC.)?

Dear god yes. People in the SF Bay Area are, on the whole, drastically more polite than people in NYC. There are rude people on the BART and the bus, but they stick out much more since they are the exception and not the norm. After having lived in both cities, I don't think I could ever move back to NYC for any real degree of time, mainly because of the people.

How are cultural events in SF compared to NYC?

What specifically do you mean?

I am in accounting field and am wondering whether SF has more opportunities than Silicon Valley. I prefer to find a job in SF, but wouldn’t want to limit myself geographically since I will be searching as an out-of-town candidate.

Thanks in advance for any valuable information. Happy Holidays!

Can't really help you there; I don't know much about the accounting field/industry in the area. I will tell you, though, that although I love NYC and am proud to have grown up over in Boston, and getting back home to visit is nice... I chose SF over them and never regretted my decision. I live in Beverly Hills at the moment but get back up there all the time to see friends and my sister (I'm driving up on Saturday, in fact ), and will likely move back in the next few years. There's really nowhere else in the US that I'd rather be for the long haul than the Bay Area

[mini_cute]

Hi xinyun, I can give you some advice as I previously lived in NYC and am an Asian-American who also likes to shop at Asian grocery stores.

First, I prefer to live in SF over Oakland because Oakland still felt dangerous to me. Granted, I haven't ventured into the upscale areas of Oakland, but that may be an indication that they are not that accessible and of little interest. Who knows, but I just know that Oakland in general doesn't make me feel as safe as when I am in SF. But I do find Oakland very charming in many ways- just that with SF here I'd rather live in SF.

San Francisco does have a large population of Asians, particularly Chinese who speak Cantonese. According to the 2010 US Census, NYC has more Asians in terms of quantity, while SF has a larger percentage of Asians. Here are the supporting statistics:

New York City
Total population size: 8,175,133,
Total number of Asians: 1,062,767 Asians
Percentage of Population that is Asian: 13% Asian
Source

San Francisco
Total population size: 805,235
Total number of Asians: 268,143 Asians
Percentage of Population that is Asian: 33.3% Asian
Source

What results from having a larger percentage of Asians is more of an experience that Asians are more integrated into society here. One of my fellow Asian-American friends, who is a native New Yorker, came to visit and she remarked how she "did not feel her Asian-ness" when she was here. I think what she felt is true of the experience of being an Asian here in comparison to NYC, and Asians are truly much more integrated. Take for instance our elected Asian-American mayor Ed Lee. Also, many of the city supervisors are Asian-American: Jane Kim, David Chiu (President of the Board of Supervisors). Leland Yee is a California Senator in District 8 (which covers almost half of SF). Those are just a few I have named.

Oakland, also has an Asian-American mayor Jean Quan (although has been criticized lately for her handling of the Occupy Wall Street protesters).

Here are some notable Asian neighborhoods in SF:

The Richmond District near Clement St. - This place has been called the "New Chinatown" and most of the commercial activity is along Clement Street. There are some small to medium Asian groceries, as well as Asian restaurants mixed in with some non-Asian ones. That area is served by bus transit. It is located in the Northwestern part of SF, situated above Golden Gate Park, so there will be more fog. Also, as you move further west, the city gets more suburban-like- meaning less tall buildings and more single-family homes, more quiet, and more car-centric.

Chinatown - I notice a lot of very old Chinese seniors live in Chinatown proper. Most of the younger people and newer generations don't live in Chinatown- they have moved to other neighborhoods or to the suburbs outside of SF down on the peninsula (i.e. San Mateo, Cupertino). That has been the migration pattern. Chinatown still has a very Chinese feel to it- like a place sort of stuck in time and is still very touristy. They do have a lot of Asian groceries, particularly on Stockton St. whereas Grant St. is more for non-food goods and tourist shops. This place is served by bus transit, and in the future will be served by the extension of the light rail Muni Metro service- they are working on constructing that now.

Sunset District - this place is situated on the southern side of Golden Gate Park and is a counterpart to Richmond. It is more affluent than the Richmond District and feels even more suburban. There are some Asian shops and restaurants. I am not sure about Asian groceries here, but I think people here just do their shopping in the Richmond District or drive down to 99 Ranch in Daly City.

Although I have named these as notable Asian-dominated neighborhoods, you can find Asian residents in just about any neighborhood in SF.

For my own situation, I live in the Mission Bay neighborhood next to the Ballpark. Lots of working professionals live here including many young Asian-Americans and is well served by transit (we've got the Caltrain station, N, K, T Muni metro and many bus lines as well as easy access to freeway ramps for 280 and 80). It takes 30 minutes to walk to downtown and Union Square for shopping. It is a very convenient location and is in the sunnier part of SF. For groceries, I just shop at Safeway and Trader Joes (which are not Asian) and I drive out to Daly City (12.5 miles away) to shop at 99 Ranch. Most of the Asians I know drive out to 99 Ranch to do their grocery shopping. It is a big Asian supermarket chain with a huge selection and much less smelly than sidewalk groceries. California Asians just love their 99 Ranch. Since that isn't what you are seeking (you want a place you can walk or ride transit to) I do recommend you look into the Richmond District. But if you ever get a chance to drive and rent a Zipcar, go check out 99 Ranch- I think you will be impressed.

And to answer some of your questions more directly:

iving car-free life - very possible, but transit is not as good as NYC (less extensive, not as fast, less frequency). more people own cars here. there is still very much car culture in SF and the Bay Area. but it is possible, but you may want to consider driving at some point as you will increase your experience here 10 fold (i.e. you can drive out to the peninsula (lots of Asians there as well), to Lake Tahoe to Ski, hiking trips, road trips to Los Angeles). You may want to get a bike as it is growing as a popular means of transport. More people and Asians are getting riding bikes and the city has been steadily implementing bike lanes. You might be scared biking in the city at first, and you will have to learn the ways to avoid hills, so take a free class on city biking when you become interested in this option. People also ride scooters and electric bikes are starting to be more common.


job market - Excellent right now if you are in high tech or related fields. They can't hire people fast enough and it is the one bright spot in the entire US economy. Plus a bunch of young people are set to get ultra rich this year and the years following as big techs are having their IPOS, that means employees can make big money on stock options and then spend the money which further stimulates the local economy. This is not my own opinion, there have been news articles written about this. Here is one such example.

climate and cultural life - Climate is very mild, rarely gets hot and rarely gets biting cold- but overall I'd say it is more on the cool side. July is actually one of the most wintery months while summer actually happens in the fall starting in late August through November. The hottest days are in Sept and Oct. We get lots of fog and it can get pretty darn windy for half the year. But overall, the weather is pretty comfortable and I think we get more sunshine than NYC. As for cultural life, it is much more slow-paced and laid-back than NYC for sure. People are very health conscious here so you see people exercising a lot and people are into the outdoors- hiking, skiing, snowboarding, biking. People like to eat healthy so lots of organic and vegetarian options. Huge foodie culture here and people love wine and artisanal beers. There is also a Maker culture here, meaning people who like to tinker and make stuff with their hands. What sort of culture are you interested in? We do have the high arts as well, Opera, Theater, Art museums, Symphony, ballet. I think the quality of life here is good and while the people are not as fashion forward as NYC, I do think the people here are good looking perhaps due to all that exercise, healthy eating, more sun, less stress, and great air quality.

Do people carry groceries onto the bus? - Yes, but mainly the older generation Chinese- many young Chinese are not often seen carrying groceries on the bus as many have a car and transport groceries that way. But, you will not be thought weird or judged if you do carry groceries on a bus.

Safe for single women - I think SF is safer for single women than Oakland. Or at least it looks and feels safer here. Like any city person, you have to use judgment to avoid bad situations. Stay away from the neighborhoods Tenderloin, Western Addition, Bayview Hunters Point. Also be wary the rental ads- some are technically in Western Addition but they market it like it is in a different neighborhood next-door.

For those moving from areas with four seasons, do you miss fall foliage or snow around Christmas, or get tired of year-round temperature being the same in Bay area? - I do miss having the appropriate seasonal weather match the holidays. Like it actually feels like fall during Christmas and the leaves are just starting to fall off- whereas I would expect the leaves to already be gone and it to be extremely wet. Also, July is supposed to be summer but instead it is windy, foggy, and cold. It is actually like summer during Halloween time and sometimes feels that way during Thanksgiving too. Hmm, maybe that is why SFers like to wear costumes so much- because it is like summer during Halloween so they can wear their hoochie costumes and not freeze their buns off. You will see if you ever live here just how much people like to dress up in costumes for any event. However, I like how the weather is so soft and mild compared to NYC. I don't get sick as often and it is easier to get out and do activities any time of the year. Plus, I think there is more sun and when there is fog it can make for some beautiful natural scenery. And you'll be seeing more of the sky here- blue with puffy white clouds.


Are people in Bay area friendlier than New Yorkers in general (I am sick of rude and careless people on subway in NYC.)?

- People in SF are very nice and polite people in comparison to NYC. You don't meet a lot of outright rude people here. The people here also tend to be more introverted. But they are nice and smile. It is easy to make friends, but you might find you have to put more work into getting people to come out. People still have some of that California flakiness. But I just love the people here.

How are cultural events in SF compared to NYC?

- When I lived in NYC, I didn't go to a lot of cultural events because they were too hard to get to. The crowded subway would be such a pain in the butt. There are a lot of cultural events here, and events in general and I think they are better because the weather is more conducive and they are easier to get to than in NYC. We do have a big Chinese New Year parade they hold in Chinatown.

I am in accounting field and am wondering whether SF has more opportunities than Silicon Valley. I prefer to find a job in SF, but wouldn’t want to limit myself geographically since I will be searching as an out-of-town candidate.

- I am not sure if SF has more accounting jobs than Silicon Valley but there are a lot of people who live in SF who work in Silicon Valley. A lot of big companies here have shuttles which pick and drop people off in SF, since they know that people like to live there (i.e. Google, Cisco, Genentech, Facebook) Silicon Valley is its own place but economically SF and SV intermix a lot. People who live down there may work in SF, and vice versa. In fact, I think SF should be considered part of Silicon Valley as we have lots of tech firms here now. Look for jobs in SF for convenience if you plan to live in the city, but you can also be open to jobs on the peninsula- make sure they have a company shuttle or are located close to a Caltrain stop.

[mayorhaggar]

Originally Posted by mini_cute

First, I prefer to live in SF over Oakland because Oakland still felt dangerous to me. Granted, I haven't ventured into the upscale areas of Oakland, but that may be an indication that they are not that accessible and of little interest.

You're assuming that about 1/2 of Oakland is inaccessible and boring just because you haven't been to them? Rockridge and Lake Merritt are super easy to get to on BART and are nicer than just about anywhere in SF.

Yeah I know that Oakland feels sketchy if you're used to SF and don't know where to go, I used to be like that, but it really doesn't take much effort to find the nice parts of Oakland.

[mini_cute]

Originally Posted by mayorhaggar

You're assuming that about 1/2 of Oakland is inaccessible and boring just because you haven't been to them? Rockridge and Lake Merritt are super easy to get to on BART and are nicer than just about anywhere in SF.

Yeah I know that Oakland feels sketchy if you're used to SF and don't know where to go, I used to be like that, but it really doesn't take much effort to find the nice parts of Oakland.

Well, I am basing this on the few times I visited Oakland, plus I rode in 2 bike parties around Oakland. The bike parties go around all over the city of Oakland so I got a real visual sense of the place. But I haven't actually lived there so I could be wrong, but so far, I just don't feel as safe when I am there plus I think SF is just so beautiful.

But I will check out Rockridge and Lake Merritt again (I was at Lake Merritt for Bike Party at night) since you say it is nicer than anywhere in SF. When I do go there, I will let you know what I honestly think. But I find the "nicer than anywhere in SF hard" to believe- I mean I think my neighborhood in SF is pretty awesome and next to world-class attractions- so we'll see. I do hope I will be impressed.