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Old 01-30-2012, 01:20 PM
 
1,032 posts, read 1,752,640 times
Reputation: 818

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
You're kidding, right. Oakland is extremely segregated geographically. San Francisco is pretty segregated as well, but not nearly as much as Oakland is. Less pretentious? Where? Oakland Hills is every bit as snobby as the Marina or Snob Hill are. Actually, probably more so. I never found Mission to come off as that pretentious but then that was almost 15 years ago and it's gentrified a lot in that time. San Francisco has better dining and more of it. Not that Oakland is by any means lacking in that respect, plus it's a short trip to San Francisco. Friendlier residents? Which part of Oakland and San Francisco? Mission, Sunset and Richmond are all pretty friendly. Can't speak to Oakland that much as I haven't spend long enough there to make an informed opinion besides the obvious that the ghetto isn't very friendly at first glance and. Weather is good. Housing is cheaper because Oakland isn't as desirable.
1. Go out on any night, anywhere in Oakland and see people of all races, happily and comfortably intermingling. You see way more interracial couples (besides the typical white man and asian woman combo). Blacks in Oakland are not all one monolithic socio-economic class like in SF, and there are alot of middle class black people living here. Any comparable diverse, middle class neighborhoods likes temescal and rockridge in SF with many groups of people well represented?

Yeah, try finding that in SF. Just try.

2. I'll concede dining is probably better in SF overall, but you've got great options in Oakland.

3. Your comparing today's mission with 15 years ago? Alot has changed since then in SF. No matter where you go you've got pretentious hipster and yuppies everywhere. You can't escape them honestly.

4. On friendliness similar to comment above. Countless people have remarked on how un-apprachable and distant many SF residents are. Folks who move there often have trouble making new friends. That's pretty much unheard of in Oakland lol. There is this obnoxious, fake "Hey, look how cool I am, but get away from me" problem that is absent in Oakland. People just come off more real here. It's a great working class (but decently educated) city.

5. It's cheaper because of it's bad rap. Not actual reality on the ground in most areas of Oakland. Its quite peaceful where I live actually.

IMO SF is not really worth it to live in. Sure to visit frequently for what it has to offer, but Oakland is a much better choice for most folks. I think people will eventually com around to that realization and you'll get way more people coming here.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:33 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,920 posts, read 10,891,518 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayDude View Post
1. Go out on any night, anywhere in Oakland and see people of all races, happily and comfortably intermingling. You see way more interracial couples (besides the typical white man and asian woman combo). Blacks in Oakland are not all one monolithic socio-economic class like in SF, and there are alot of middle class black people living here. Any comparable diverse, middle class neighborhoods likes temescal and rockridge in SF with many groups of people well represented?

Yeah, try finding that in SF. Just try.

2. I'll concede dining is probably better in SF overall, but you've got great options in Oakland.

3. Your comparing today's mission with 15 years ago? Alot has changed since then in SF. No matter where you go you've got pretentious hipster and yuppies everywhere. You can't escape them honestly.

4. On friendliness similar to comment above. Countless people have remarked on how un-apprachable and distant many SF residents are. Folks who move there often have trouble making new friends. That's pretty much unheard of in Oakland lol. There is this obnoxious, fake "Hey, look how cool I am, but get away from me" problem that is absent in Oakland. People just come off more real here. It's a great working class (but decently educated) city.

5. It's cheaper because of it's bad rap. Not actual reality on the ground in most areas of Oakland. Its quite peaceful where I live actually.

IMO SF is not really worth it to live in. Sure to visit frequently for what it has to offer, but Oakland is a much better choice for most folks. I think people will eventually com around to that realization and you'll get way more people coming here.

^I agree on everything, although I do think that even in neighborhoods like the Mission, there are still tons of real people... you just have to also take the not-so-real people in stride whereas in Oakland you just don't see too many of those types. They tend to stay in Berkeley.
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Dimond, Oakland, CA
109 posts, read 240,856 times
Reputation: 117
I agree with Malloric about Montclair being pretentious. It drives me up the wall about my neighbors. We get notes on the windshield for parking in front of people's homes on a public road (on places they otherwise wouldn't be parking in front of) and blank stares from the neighbors when we wave or say hi! We have 2 dogs and perhaps that is the reason? We are about 30 years their junior... maybe that is why? But, I have met some folks and frankly, it is tiresome listen to how great they all think they are. The rest of Oakland is not like this in my experience. I have met so many like minded folks here... just not in the hills. Perhaps I am unlucky with those I meet, say high to, wave to, walk past, etc... but, I hardly think it is a fluke. Frankly, I can't wait to get out of the hills and into the REAL areas of Oakland. If people only know Oakland from experiences such as mine, I would imagine they think Oaklanders are snobby. Thankfully, almost everyone I have met and hung out with from Fruitvale, to Lake Merritt, to Downtown, to North Oakland are wonderful, genuine people.
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:26 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
1,283 posts, read 1,562,432 times
Reputation: 799
So where are the REAL areas of Oakland?
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
30,801 posts, read 49,196,062 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
You're kidding, right. Oakland is extremely segregated geographically. San Francisco is pretty segregated as well, but not nearly as much as Oakland is.
No, San Francisco is not LESS segregated than Oakland nor is San Francisco as racially and ethnically diverse than Oakland, and that translates to a higher degree of integration as well in my experience. I havent a clue where you made such a deduction? My guess is probably too much television? I dunno.

Anyway, this huge swath of 18 contiguously connected neighborhoods represents perhaps the most diverse area probably on the West Coast.










Furthermore, Id love to find out which affluent SF neighborhood can compare to this kind of integration:

Caballo Hills
Average Houshehold Income: $125,590
Pop Density: 984 per sq mile


The views up there are amazing...



http://sherrybenninger.com/images/46...m_blue_sky.jpg


http://www.listingproducer.com/Uploa...s/_smh2207.jpg


http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/10...472052_8_0.jpg


http://image3.examiner.com/images/bl...ckingham_1.jpg


http://sherrybenninger.com/images/4807calderwood_by.jpg


http://p.rdcpix.com/v01/l4f82a142-w0m.jpg


http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/ontheblock/2009/05/09/Rockingham_ext499x333.jpg


http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/10...40472052_1.jpg
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
30,801 posts, read 49,196,062 times
Reputation: 13713
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontales View Post
So where are the REAL areas of Oakland?
Are you really interested or are you just trying to perpetuate a flame war?

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Old 01-30-2012, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
30,801 posts, read 49,196,062 times
Reputation: 13713
Not that SF is totally segregated, cause the city has lots of integated areas too of course, but this is like Manhattan vs Queens/BK. The City has its advantages but the outer boroughs wins this category.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:33 PM
 
23,466 posts, read 44,833,720 times
Reputation: 16119
18Montclair... outstanding data as usual
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
12,459 posts, read 13,120,068 times
Reputation: 10896
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayDude View Post
1. Go out on any night, anywhere in Oakland and see people of all races, happily and comfortably intermingling. You see way more interracial couples (besides the typical white man and asian woman combo). Blacks in Oakland are not all one monolithic socio-economic class like in SF, and there are alot of middle class black people living here. Any comparable diverse, middle class neighborhoods likes temescal and rockridge in SF with many groups of people well represented?

Yeah, try finding that in SF. Just try.
Uh. Rockridge is quite homogeneous. Super-majority white middle-class and up. Mission Dolores is much more diverse both economically and ethnically. Even for folks with race-blinders who define "diversity" to mean "black people", there's more diversity in Mission Dolores than Rockridge.. It's a nice place, but diverse it is not. It's one of those places well-educated, liberal yuppies who like to pretend they like diversity but don't actually want it in their backyard enjoy immensely. Nothing wrong with that, and there are certainly many of them in San Francisco as well. Even in Temescal, which is diverse, it's pretty sharply segregated into a "good" and "bad" side. You see that type of segregation in the suburban parts of San Francisco, but not so much in the more urban parts.

Quote:
IMO SF is not really worth it to live in. Sure to visit frequently for what it has to offer, but Oakland is a much better choice for most folks. I think people will eventually com around to that realization and you'll get way more people coming here.
I don't entirely disagree. I'd prefer to live in Mission Dolores than Rockridge, although I do see the appeal of white yuppie suburban development, especially when it's as well located, and charming as Rockridge is as opposed to your normal bland exurban development.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:11 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,920 posts, read 10,891,518 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Uh. Rockridge is quite homogeneous. Super-majority white middle-class and up. Mission Dolores is much more diverse both economically and ethnically. Even for folks with race-blinders who define "diversity" to mean "black people", there's more diversity in Mission Dolores than Rockridge.. It's a nice place, but diverse it is not. It's one of those places well-educated, liberal yuppies who like to pretend they like diversity but don't actually want it in their backyard enjoy immensely. Nothing wrong with that, and there are certainly many of them in San Francisco as well. Even in Temescal, which is diverse, it's pretty sharply segregated into a "good" and "bad" side. You see that type of segregation in the suburban parts of San Francisco, but not so much in the more urban parts.


I don't entirely disagree. I'd prefer to live in Mission Dolores than Rockridge, although I do see the appeal of white yuppie suburban development, especially when it's as well located, and charming as Rockridge is as opposed to your normal bland exurban development.
The bolded is an understatement. There are far more of them in San Francisco than in Oakland.
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