06-02-2015, 05:43 PM
Location: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooMuchData
I have trouble fathoming this love for Caltrain. I understand Caltrain is probably doing the best they can with their limited infrastructure. But it is really quite limited. It doesn't go to downtown SF, its service is very infrequent, very slow except for the handful of baby bullet trains during weekday commute hours only, the trains are noisy, and the seats lack adequate legroom.
BART is great. Definitely the most functional form of transit in the bay area. Fast, reliable, comfortable, goes directly through downtown SF & Oakland. Some sections of track are noisy and it gets crowded during peak commute hours, but I hardly care because the train ride is so quick. Service is very frequent during commute hours, and decently frequent in the middle of the day. Late night and Sunday service is way too infrequent (20 minute headways), though that's still far more frequent than Caltrain at those same times (1-2 hour headways).
At least both BART and Caltrain allow bicycles, which is hugely useful in the bay area.
SFMTA is a conundrum. Practically every corner of the city has at least a bus stop, but due to lack of right-of-way infrastructure the only fast service is in the tunnel under Market St & twin peaks. Even there delays are common. I've given up waiting for a train after paying my Muni fare on many occasions. And once on a train it's a coin toss whether or not there will be an inexplicable delay while you sit going nowhere.
The F line historic street cars are cool, even if the line is typical Muni slow.
VTA light rail is shockingly slow. I do not understand how or why.
I don't understand how you can call BART fast and Caltrain slow. When comparing them the only BART line that is the length of the Caltrain line is the Pittsburg - SFO/Millbrae line.
To compare apples to apples I would have to compare the Pittsburgh - SFO/Millbrae line, cutting off at SFO, so basically Pittsburg to SFO, to the Caltrain trunk line (SF - SJ).
BART: ~50 miles, trip time: 86 minutes avg, max 86 min, min 86 min, 25 stations.
Caltrain: ~47 miles, trip time: ~77 min avg, max 93 min, min 56 min, 26 stations.
I don't see how one could objectively call Caltrain slow, when on average it covers the same distance in a shorter time, this is not even accounting for the fact that driving time between the stations is shorter from Pittsburg to SFO vs SJ Diridon to SF 4th & King. BART has a more roundabout route, and is slower.
If you're talking about peak speed, then yes, BART is faster, Caltrain goes up to 79mph, BART goes up to 80mph. I don't think the 1mph is a huge difference though.
The biggest differences I see between BART and Caltrain are: 1. Caltrain has bigger headways, you really need to be on the station in time, because the next train may be 15 minutes later, 20 minutes later, 40 minutes later, or 1 hr later. 2. BART is loud:
Noise on BART: How bad is it and is it harmful? - SFGate , engineers decided to re-invent the wheel, and it shows, many times they didn't even bother looking at the existing rail literature and you can hear it, also one major reason everything with BART costs an arm and a leg, you can't just buy stuff off the shelf so to speak, you need custom order everything. 3. BART doesn't have huge delays as often, Caltrain has become the a popular way to commit suicide in the Bay Area, that combined with cars parked on the track, it has been come an almost once a month occurrence that Caltrain will be delayed at least 1 hr, to indefinitely during commute hours. 4. As a commuter it is obvious how dirty BART is, even though food and drink are allowed on Caltrain, and banned on BART, BART still manages to be very dirty, while Caltrain looks clean. Probably the choice of surfaces, Caltrain does not seem to use absorbent fabrics for seats and floors, BART is the opposite, we'll see how clean the new Metrolink inherited Caltrain rolling stock stays, such fabric looks bad after many years, absorbing all kinds of things.
Caltrain gets to SF from the peninsula much faster than BART, and any replacement would mean much longer commutes for Peninsula residents going to SF.
Last edited by cardinal2007; 06-02-2015 at 06:02 PM ..
06-02-2015, 06:23 PM
Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cardinal2007
robably the choice of surfaces, Caltrain does not seem to use absorbent fabrics for seats and floors, BART is the opposite, we'll see how clean the new Metrolink inherited Caltrain rolling stock stays, such fabric looks bad after many years, absorbing all kinds of things.
BART has all vinyl seats and hard floors now, they don't really absorb anything.
06-02-2015, 10:14 PM
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
HockeyMac18
Not to mention that Caltrain infrastructure is just so much cheaper to build than BART. I don't understand why people want BART down the peninsula so badly...
I think most of BARTs convenience is based on the frequent schedule. Caltrain will never get to BART like frequency all day. Caltrain may work, but it doesn't come if you aren't in the peak window,
Quote:
I would love to see Caltrain and BART merge, though, since it would reduce redundancies, and guarantee funding for Caltrain (something they sorely need since they basically rely on donations to survive).
If we were smart region-wide with our money, we would work to improve BART in the most dense urban areas by adding passing tracks and more stations. And at the edge of the lines, we would build commuter rail lines that extended far out to the central valley. You could even have multiple commuter lines feed off from one BART line. You could then used money saved not used to build BART to Manteca to improve other transit around the Bay Area, such as Caltrain (grade-separate entire line, electrify the line, build the connection to the new Transbay terminal, build passing tracks along the entire stretch of the line (would be amazing)).
The fiefdoms make this hard, though BART is starting to think "Beyond the train" and more like a transit system, considering alternate technologies to serve its needs.
[quote]
Regarding transfer points, I don't know if there is much Caltrain could do about this. The line that Caltrain uses was there well before BART. Although, I find the Milbrae station to be a really great and easy transfer point.
I was referring to newer development. Muni is doing some expansion near the 22nd Street station and it'll be a little far from the station. Same with the Warm Springs extension, just about 1 mile to VTA. We have net new infrastructure and no coordination.
06-02-2015, 10:17 PM
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
marcopolo666
Please, no merge. CalTrain is the best transit option in the area (well, after SFMTA).
As for unified ticketing, I just use my clipper card. Everywhere. CalTrain, VTA, MTA, BART, ferries, AC Transit, ...
And you can easily spend $10-15 each way with all of these transit agencies. A single payment system is good, but there needs to be a more unified fare system.
06-02-2015, 10:22 PM
Location: Oakland, CA
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Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cardinal2007
4. As a commuter it is obvious how dirty BART is, even though food and drink are allowed on Caltrain, and banned on BART, BART still manages to be very dirty, while Caltrain looks clean. Probably the choice of surfaces, Caltrain does not seem to use absorbent fabrics for seats and floors, BART is the opposite, we'll see how clean the new Metrolink inherited Caltrain rolling stock stays, such fabric looks bad after many years, absorbing all kinds of things.
Caltrain gets to SF from the peninsula much faster than BART, and any replacement would mean much longer commutes for Peninsula residents going to SF.
BART Daily Ridership:
400k people
Caltrain daily ridership:
52K people
BART serves nearly 8x more people than Caltrain daily.
06-03-2015, 03:21 AM
Location: San Jose, CA
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Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jade408
BART Daily Ridership:
400k people
Caltrain daily ridership:
52K people
BART serves nearly 8x more people than Caltrain daily.
The multiple is 7.2 (usually to round to a whole number one rounds down if it is less than the half), so about 7x.
BART has their ridership surveys here:
Ridership Reports | bart.gov
Caltrain here:
Ridership
You can get the number for 2015 for Caltrain, and then pick the same month on the BART page and compare:
Caltrain: 58,245
BART: 420,906
420,906/58,245 = 7.226
Anyway it could be 10x or 20x, it still doesn't mean that the peninsula should rip out Caltrain and replace it with BART, it will be way slower than Caltrain, especially once the extension to downtown San Francisco is finished in 20-30 years.
06-03-2015, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jade408
I think most of BARTs convenience is based on the frequent schedule. Caltrain will never get to BART like frequency all day.
We're often on the same page on these points, but I'm in disagreement here. Four electrified tracks and dedicated funding and Caltrain would certainly operate as conveniently as BART. So I really second Cardinal's position that, for the peninsula and south bay, BART would be a step backward in service. It's not that BART is better, dollar-for-dollar, it is that BART is geographically larger, has much higher ridership and, as such, is just the more familiar option for many residents.
06-03-2015, 11:29 AM
Location: Oakland, CA
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Reputation: 28561
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cardinal2007
The multiple is 7.2 (usually to round to a whole number one rounds down if it is less than the half), so about 7x.
You used different numbers than I did.
Quote:
Anyway it could be 10x or 20x, it still doesn't mean that the peninsula should rip out Caltrain and replace it with BART, it will be way slower than Caltrain, especially once the extension to downtown San Francisco is finished in 20-30 years.
No one mentioned ripping out Caltrain. The request was to merge operations. Very different ask.
06-05-2015, 04:56 PM
2,552 posts, read
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Reputation: 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jade408
You used different numbers than I did.
No one mentioned ripping out Caltrain. The request was to merge operations. Very different ask.
I think we all went on a tangent in reply to TooMuchData's post.
06-05-2015, 05:45 PM
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Ripping out Caltrain and running the BART gorilla of double tracking and dedicated right of way would be an amazing idea if it didn't cost over 9999 billion dollars.
Best thing to do is double track Caltrain, give it dedicated right of way and get rid of some of its redundant stations. And improve headways for gods sake. 20 minute headways on BART is already the limit of a true transit system. 40-60 minutes is a joke.
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Urban houses (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Healthcare support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Protective service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)