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Ohh c'mon. Tech companies don't need people in sales, marketing, finance, accounting, purchasing, HR, etc...? Tech companies don't need places to do their banking, insurers, health care providers, facilities support? All that discretionary income spent by young tech employees making 6 figures has never done any good for anyone outside the tech industry??
Depends on what they are doing. Today's internet startups do not need or have much support staff. A 80-100 person tech startup will have 1/2 time accounting, 1/2 HR and maybe 2 marketing people. And Maybe 5 sales people. They aren't looking for a diverse set of roles at all.
Well, this is anecdotal, sure....but all I can say from personal experience is that since I've been here I've met probably 50 people that work for tech firms like Yelp, Twitter, Salesforce, Google (SF office), etc...and only one of them was actually a software engineer. Everyone else is either doing Sales, Marketing, Finance, Purchasing or HR.
And keep in mind, if it wasn't for all those tech start-ups, there wouldn't be a need for all those banks in the Financial District where they get their loans and store their money.
Well, this is anecdotal, sure....but all I can say from personal experience is that since I've been here I've met probably 50 people that work for tech firms like Yelp, Twitter, Salesforce, Google (SF office), etc...and only one of them was actually a software engineer. Everyone else is either doing Sales, Marketing, Finance, Purchasing or HR.
And keep in mind, if it wasn't for all those tech start-ups, there wouldn't be a need for all those banks in the Financial District where they get their loans and store their money.
At this stage, those companies are really big. Salesforce has what 10000 employees? I imagine half of the company is in sales at the point.
Look around at all of the smaller startups. All engineers. They don't even think about hiring a non-engineer until they get to around 40 employees.
Wonder how many of the new jobs will actually go to Americans.
Any who, the problem with this tech boom is that it is not backed by a vibrant financial industry, strong real estate market, surging stock market, decreased military spending, all the stuff that happened in the 90's.
What is happening now seems more like the tech boom of the 80's. It's funny because people are spouting the same trickle down economics bs that they were spouting during the 80's boom when all most working and middle class people got out of it was an increase in cost of living. Oh wait that's happening now too.
Just as Reagan went bonkers with military spending, Obama has too. What was it in 2010 we had the largest military budget since the mid to late 1940's?
I dunno about that... This is like saying that the neurosurgery business does not do anything economically for anyone who is not a neurosurgeon. Well, in a direct sense, sure, the neurosurgeon gets the lion's share of the prize - but he/she also has the skills required to do the job, and the market of consumers highly values the outputs of that job. If you want a piece of that pie, then the obvious thing to do instead of vilifying the neurosurgeon is to do the work necessary to become one yourself.
Medicine creates a ton of middle class support staff jobs--nurses, pharmacists, etc. Tech doesn't, it concentrates a ton of money in the hands of a few people, and they hire a lot of Indians and other non-Americans, and when they actually create a product they make it in China (though so does everyone else other than some agricultural companies and some medical goods companies).
Don't take it from me, take it from one of the founders of PayPal:
Quote:
The information age has made Thiel rich, but it has also been a disappointment to him. It hasn’t created enough jobs, and it hasn’t produced revolutionary improvements in manufacturing and productivity. The creation of virtual worlds turns out to be no substitute for advances in the physical world. “The Internet—I think it’s a net plus, but not a big one,” he said. “Apple is an innovative company, but I think it’s mostly a design innovator.” Twitter has a lot of users, but it doesn’t employ that many Americans: “Five hundred people will have job security for the next decade, but how much value does it create for the entire economy? It may not be enough to dramatically improve living standards in the U.S. over the next decade or two decades.”[LEFT]
Read more Peter Thiel’s Rise to Wealth and Libertarian Futurism : The New Yorker
[/LEFT]
Honestly I wouldn't care about all the new tech jobs but it is pretty clearly a bubble that will yet again affect a lot more people than it's currently benefiting when it bursts, and it's raising rents and making the Bay Area more horribly unaffordable, and that benefits nobody who isn't a landlord or in tech.
There's nothing you can do about it though, the tech companies are just plugged into the local hivemind and doing what all the other tech companies around them are doing, and they have zero need to hire a bunch of middle class workers, but they have tons of cash lying around compared to how little work goes into making and maintaining a clever website (compared to, say, setting up a factory). Also it wouldn't really matter so much if there wasn't an already existing perennial housing shortage in the Bay Area combined with lots of people being pushed into the rental market due to foreclosures and being unable to get affordable mortgages--the current tech bubble came about on top of this and is making a bad housing situation worse. But the rest of the economy is not doing well and these rising rents are really punishing people who have already been stuck in limbo since 2008. Why should you care that some guy down the block just bought a Ferrari with his buyout money when you haven't gotten even a paltry annual bonus in 4 years?
What is happening now seems more like the tech boom of the 80's. It's funny because people are spouting the same trickle down economics bs that they were spouting during the 80's boom when all most working and middle class people got out of it was an increase in cost of living. Oh wait that's happening now too.
This is quite true. I'm in an interesting position as I'm technically in "tech", but I work in a genetics lab (doing a mixture of wet-lab and software engineering). Since I've gone the academic route, I don't get anywhere near the pay as some people doing "tech" at some of these new start-up companies. That being said, I don't do what I do because of the money...I do it because I believe in the causes/research/contributing to the greater good. For instance, some really exciting recent findings of our lab: Anthrax Toxicity Depends on Human Genetics | Observations, Scientific American Blog Network Vulnerability to Anthrax Varies Widely: Study - US News and World Report
This is the stuff that gets me excited...unfortunately, you have to love what you do to work in academia because the money isn't (and will never be) super great (the pay is OK, but certainly below the mean of the region). I don't live in the city and still manage to save very little (if any) money...
The thing about living here in (at least, given the current economic situation) is that you have to constantly evaluate if it's "worth it".
Some questions that go through my mind somewhat regularly:
How worth is living here considering my below-average pay? (I love it here, am still young, and am having a blast; so it's worth it, for now)
Is working in a cutting-edge lab at Stanford conducting ground-breaking research worth it? (for now, yes)
Could I raise a family here with this job? (definitely, no)...
Would this job sustain my (frugal) lifestyle for a long time? (probably not...in 2010/early 2011, rents were cheap enough. But certainly not with these late 2011/2012 rents that I'm seeing...)
Is it worth it to try to set up roots here knowing that if I continue to do what I love, I won't actually ever to be able to afford anything more than a small 1 bedroom in an (relatively) affordable suburb? (I don't know...)
The thing is, I want to stay here. And I don't see myself leaving anytime soon...but it would also be great if I could continue to do what I love AND be able to afford to live here (I'm not talking luxury life, just the ability to save some money on the side after paying my monthly rent on a meager 1BR apartment in a semi-decent area). I'm not trying to make it seem like I'm complaining/whining. I understood what I was getting into when I moved here and took this position. I'm merely putting forth these thoughts because I'm quite certain it reflects the feelings of many Bay Area residents. If you don't happen to work in "tech" (a vague term, but lately, this has referred to growth in the web-based/technology start-up sectors), it is certainly a judgement call on whether things here are "worth it".
I'm sure some people will chime in (such as "hsw") with how in a "free market," one should just "choose" to work in the field that gives one the most "return on investment." Sure, I see this point...that is, after all, how our economic system works. But aren't people driven by more than money? I mean, can't you also be driven by the love for one's work? Shouldn't that, in reality, be one of the (if not, THE main) driving forces behind one's decision of what field to pursue work in? After all, we can't all be software engineers (what a boring world, that would be)...
Shouldn't we aim to establish a society that is well-rounded and is well-represented in multiple fields? You can scream "free market" until you can no longer speak...but the consequence of that is you can be left with a very one-dimensional region where people doing "lesser work" (such as the researchers with which I work) are left with few less-than-stellar choices on living (such as: commute over an hour/hours to get to work from more affordable areas, or simply move away completely).
I know there isn't an easy solution to these issues (if a solution even exists at all), but they're quite real. And outside of the debacle that is the "occupy" movement, you don't really hear these issues being discussed in society. In fact, the "occupy" movement, while managing to get people talking about these issues (mainly, affordability, income-inequality), has done a great deal of damage to the reputation of the people who would like to discuss these problems in a mature manner. There is so much bickering/name-calling in this country, we can't get past our (silly, and quite frankly, small) differences to start focusing on the real problems at hand. People would rather be "right" and get the last scream in during a debate, than get together and actually solve some of these problems.
I do hope I can stay here for a long time. And I really hope I don't have to "sell my soul" and do something I don't love to do just because the pay affords me the ability to stay here.
While it is a truly an awesome place to live now, if we stay on the current trajectory, many things/people that make the bay area so interesting and exciting might be lost forever. That would definitely be a shame.
Last edited by HockeyMac18; 03-02-2012 at 07:13 PM..
I don't see anything in the article re: job descriptions nor pay rates. Coming from the Bay Area, my recollection of the tech jobs was a lot of underpaid code writers with carpel tunnel syndrome, coming out to the BA convinced they would be the next Bill Gates. Not to rain on the parade, but I remember very well when things went down back about a decade ago. The bulk of the article is what an investor is saying and he may have an interest in driving the hype in that The City seems to be giving some kind of tax breaks to startups. Could just be my cynicism but it seems to me that a lot of excess capacity already exists in chip making and such. Some one please inform us about just what is taking place....
Up to each worker to acquire skills relevant for highest paying jobs...perhaps less time on fb and more time at khan academy/remedial online learning is useful to many of the allegedly underpaid...
Those who can't count or read prob deserve jobs in tourism or retail or govt or welfare....not sure any industry like tech needs many w/o useful engineering or sales skills....much of value of tech industry is to automate and reduce need for headcount/office space/commutes to do mundane tasks in any industry
Any worker is free to work for whichever employer or choose to live/work in whatever region, whether SV or Dallas or wherever, that makes most sense vs own skills and pay
No profitable employer will survive long in any competitive industry like tech if doesn't hire/pay most to workers w/desired skills....and in tech era, no need to have back-office workers in costly PaloAlto/SF when Dallas or Bangalore is often more efficient
Basic macroeconomics....any highly paid worker or investor in tech ultimately pays a hell of a lot more in income taxes than worker bees (but probably consumes far less in taxpayer subsidies like mass transit, police, fire, prisons, healthcare, etc); builds costly new houses (employing various craftsmen who earn their wages for quality work, not welfare or charity); dines at desired restaurants (employing lots of lower wage/skill workers in a likely profitable private business); drives some new Mercedes (supporting hardworking autoworkers in Stuttgart as well as competent sales/svc guys at best local MB dealers, etc etc); hires various low-skill, local workers to clean toilets, do landscaping, etc...
Ultimately, each worker, employer and consumer "votes" in any economy by choosing where/how one's dollars are earned, spent, saved and invested...all a negotiation between presumably free counterparties who have various alternatives outside slavery in any locale
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