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Old 04-16-2012, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,600,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Dude View Post
My cousin goes to that Art Institute there on civic center. Not exactly a classy area...
Yeah, and to be honest the area is super close to the 'loin anyway.

But the best burritos in S.F (bar none) can be found only 200 yards from the escalator.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Newark, Ca
1,269 posts, read 1,906,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0'Farrell View Post
Thats a small unfortunate aspect of an urban area.
You're delusional. You shrug things like that off like it's a just a minor inconvenience that's made worthwhile by living in such a world class city.

The day somebody takes a s**t at my front door is the day I get arrested for shooting somebody. Seriously, I get that SF is a great city in so many ways, but I can't understand for the life of me why so many residents are willing to put up with some completely intolerable behavior just to live in "The City".
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,600,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstnghu2 View Post
You're delusional. You shrug things like that off like it's a just a minor inconvenience that's made worthwhile by living in such a world class city.

The day somebody takes a s**t at my front door is the day I get arrested for shooting somebody. Seriously, I get that SF is a great city in so many ways, but I can't understand for the life of me why so many residents are willing to put up with some completely intolerable behavior just to live in "The City".
First off, you have problems if you're going to shoot a homeless person for taking a sh*t on your apartment buildings door step.

Secondly, I don't think anyone is excusing the filthiness that comes along with a city as ok, but it's just something that comes along with the package. You could say this about L.A, New York, etc. You get homeless people who takes sh*ts in public, it's a lot better than "other cities that shouldn't be named" that have the highest violent crime rate in the state. I'd rather deal with homeless people 10 times out of 10 over violent gangs.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:53 AM
rah
 
Location: San Francisco
3,097 posts, read 4,948,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
You get homeless people who takes sh*ts in public, it's a lot better than "other cities that shouldn't be named" that have the highest violent crime rate in the state. I'd rather deal with homeless people 10 times out of 10 over violent gangs.
News flash: San Francisco also has way too much violence and gangs, and has one of the highest violent crime rates in the state as well. Oakland is not the only place with those types of problems (Even San Jose has gang/violence problems to an extent, like most cities).

Innocent people get murdered in mistaken-identity gang shootings every year in SF. Sometimes multiple people, including entire families and children. Snitches get murdered here too, just like any other city. And SF also has a relatively high robbery rate for a city it's size. Even tourists get murdered from time to time in SF. Within the last two years we had two tourists murdered: one shot after a robbery, and another hit by a stray bullet near Union Square. Another was killed by a drunk driver, and at least a few more were hit by stray bullets in other shootings, though they lived. The Tenderloin, one of SF's most violent areas, is literally in the middle of downtown, which definitely has a negative affect on the overall safety level of the rest of downtown (and was undoubtedly one reason why a few of those tourists were shot over the past couple years). How does any of that sound so much better than Oakland? Just saying...

It's not just bums crapping in your doorway in SF, and it's not like that doesn't happen in other cities either. Though SF is probably one of the worst offenders in that department.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
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rah, I respect your opinion, and I won't defend S.F as not having violent crime, because like all cities, S.F does have it. But in S.F the only areas where S.F is clearly above the average is in robbery, and assault (usually recorded within the same crime), which makes sense since S.F is a very touristy city. The murder rate in S.F is about the national average (incidents per 100,000 people).
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Oakland on the other hand is way, way, way above the national average, and yes, even way above S.F in all violent crime categories; assault, murder, rape, and robbery.

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Yes, S.F has violent crime (like most large cities), but per capita, Oakland is more than twice as violent as S.F.

Oakland has no rivals in California.

Last edited by Yac; 04-17-2012 at 06:02 AM..
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:33 PM
rah
 
Location: San Francisco
3,097 posts, read 4,948,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
rah, I respect your opinion, and I won't defend S.F as not having violent crime, because like all cities, S.F does have it. But in S.F the only areas where S.F is clearly above the average is in robbery, and assault (usually recorded within the same crime), which makes sense since S.F is a very touristy city. The murder rate in S.F is about the national average (incidents per 100,000 people).


Oakland on the other hand is way, way, way above the national average, and yes, even way above S.F in all violent crime categories; assault, murder, rape, and robbery.



Yes, S.F has violent crime (like most large cities), but per capita, Oakland is more than twice as violent as S.F.

Oakland has no rivals in California.
SF's murder rate from 2009 until now has been at record lows. before that it was quite a bit higher. There were 45 murders in 2009 for example, yet in 2008 there were 99, in 2007 there were 100, in 2006 there were 86, in 2005 there were 96, and in 2004 there were 88. In the 1970s through 1990s, SF was often hitting 100-140 murders a year, even.

And Oakland does have "murder rivals". In terms of raw numbers SF is actually one of them from time to time (moreso in the past than now), and LA obviously surpasses Oakland ever year. In terms of murder rate, there are CA suburbs on par with Oakland, such as Richmond, Compton, etc.

Another thing to note is that the SFPD does not submit complete crime stats to the FBI, to the extent that SF's violent crime rate should be about 20% higher whenever you look at the stats for the past decade or so...so overall violent crime stats are almost always going to be incorrect for SF. Specifically, they classify domestic violence related aggravated assaults separately from other aggravated assaults, making the number submitted to the FBI much smaller than it is. They've been doing so since at least 2005, by our last police chief's own admission (which was rather vague with most details), but it got almost ZERO attention in the media (there is literally 1 small article about it, which was in a free local newspaper. That's it), and the SFPD doesn't appear to have stopped doing it yet since the reported assault rates did not change whatsoever in the following years, when it should obviously have gotten significantly higher.

And I'm not arguing that Oakland doesn't have more per-capita crime than SF, it certainly does. But the point is, that just like SF, Oakland has very bad areas where the majority of that crime happens, good areas where very little happens, and in between areas where some happens, but not too much. There's a reason why the FBI explicitly states that crime stats alone cannot be used to gauge the "danger-level" or "crime-level" of any city in its entirety.

And the second point is, that even though Oakland has a higher violent crime rate, SF's isn't exactly low. So it only seems fair that some of the attention for that should go to SF too, and we shouldn't act like Oakland is the only place in CA with bad violence problems in certain areas.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,600,889 times
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I've lived in the Bay for over 20 years, and I think at times the local media (Examiner, SF Gate, Contra Costa Times, KTVU etc) give Oakland a bad rap more based on reputation, and perception.

But you have to ask yourself where that reputation and perception stemmed from? Did it comes out of thin air?

I don't think it did come out of thin air. Does that mean I'd be scared walking through Rockridge? Probably not, but that doesn't mean Oakland's violent crime rate isn't extremely high compared to other cities.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: South Korea
5,245 posts, read 6,331,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docgoldstein View Post
i've lived in the bay for over 20 years, and i think at times the local media (examiner, sf gate, contra costa times, ktvu etc) give oakland a bad rap more based on reputation, and perception.

But you have to ask yourself where that reputation and perception stemmed from? Did it comes out of thin air?
lol.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,600,889 times
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Quote:
This message is hidden because mayorhaggar is on your ignore list.
Love this anti-troll technology.
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:35 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,325 posts, read 6,045,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
I've lived in the Bay for over 20 years, and I think at times the local media (Examiner, SF Gate, Contra Costa Times, KTVU etc) give Oakland a bad rap more based on reputation, and perception.

But you have to ask yourself where that reputation and perception stemmed from? Did it comes out of thin air?
Maybe it has something to do with: "... the local media (Examiner, SF Gate, Contra Costa Times, KTVU, etc.) give Oakland a bad rap more based on reputation, and perception."

Oakland's always been easier to pick on because it's not SF, and there has always been a higher concentration of African-Americans there, the population most frequently blamed for criminal activity and incarcerated in our nation's history. Benefit of the doubt has never been enjoyed by Oakland.
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