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Old 04-15-2012, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
17,094 posts, read 11,284,455 times
Reputation: 12479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
I'm pro-union, but in the case of BART, the workers striking every time they don't get an exorbitant pay raise hasn't done anything to make BART more affordable for all. $30+/hr to stand in a booth and talk trash to people is definitely the best gig in the entire Bay Area.
It is a toss up who is more annoying, the BART union or the Muni one. Muni has a clause that says they need to be top 5 in pay in the entire nation for transit agencies.....
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:09 PM
 
Location: South Korea
5,245 posts, read 6,569,288 times
Reputation: 2829
Yeah, BART is exorbitantly expensive, it basically operates like an urban subway but serves as commuter rail for a lot of people and charges commuter rail prices. But it is pretty reliable and moves pretty quickly, and there's no other easy way to get across the Bay for a lot of people. They charge way too much but if you're living in the East Bay you're saving so much on rent compared with living in San Francisco that it's worth it.

And Oakland and Chicago are kind of similar in a lot of ways. Ask any dopey white suburbanite from Iowa or downstate Illinois about Chicago and they'll rattle off a bunch of crap about how it's so dangerous and ghetto and blah blah blah. Oakland gets that from pretty much anyone on the West Coast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
2) I personally think Oakland has an uneasy feeling in general. There are of course nice parts, but in general I feel less safe compared to SF, LA, Houston, Dallas, Boston, Chicago, Seattle, NYC, Portland for example. According to statistics, in 2010, Oakland's crime index was 738.7 per 100,000 vs the national average of 319.1 per 100,000. I believe 2011 experienced more crime than 2010. Once again, there are nice parts, but I honestly don't think you save enough money to choose it over SF unless your work is in the East Bay.
The nice parts of Oakland are way safer feeling (and cleaner and quieter and less crowded) than anywhere in SF, and WAY safer feeling than Chicago. I loved living in Chicago but it has a menace around the edges just about everywhere you go, you get used to it but you don't see a similar sort of vibe in the Bay Area unless you're in a really crappy hood. And the crappy parts of Oakland are way less shady/seedy looking than the crappy parts of Chicago, though crime rates are pretty similar.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:10 AM
 
1,213 posts, read 2,304,253 times
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Totally agree. Never understood how they justified the expense, especially compared to the likes of Boston and Chicago, which have overall better service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrcousert View Post
Maybe it's time to do a review of BART's expenses. If they can't do a better job, maybe it should be replaced.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:31 AM
 
2,066 posts, read 2,332,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionguy View Post
Totally agree. Never understood how they justified the expense, especially compared to the likes of Boston and Chicago, which have overall better service.
Maybe Caltrain could take over.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:36 AM
 
Location: The Bay
6,913 posts, read 6,580,118 times
Reputation: 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by simulcra View Post
B) what's the deal with oakland? some people on here seem intent on showing the world how horrible and crime-ridden it is, while others are like it's the best place on earth. it would be great if someone who has spent time in chicago could compare it to my own frame of reference, which is living in Hyde Park and Rogers Park/Edgewater. IE, I can't tell if people are saying it's violent and crime ridden because they're used to near-suburban living environments, or they've lived in "edgier" urban neighborhoods and oakland beats that.
I'll repost something I said in the tenderloin thread here because it's relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
Suburban people - Bay Area suburban people in particular - look at SF with rose colored glasses. For a lot of people, the City = North Beach, the Marina, Downtown, Haight-Ashbury, AT&T Park and more recently the Mission (i.e. what's shown on TV or in newspapers). When said suburban people move to SF, they bring this attitude with them. For a lot of them, the SF they "know" is very, very different from the SF they live in... when you've been bombarded with SF's squeaky-clean image all your life, though, it's very hard to question it. I myself had that same squeaky-clean image of SF in my head until I really got to know the City and some people from it, particularly people from Chinatown and Fillmore. Eventually, there was too big of a gap between the image in my head and what I was seeing/hearing from SF itself and its residents for me to continue to believe in the image. It's a little like when you find out that Santa Claus isn't real... I was around that age (7 or 8) when I discovered how BS the media representation was.

Unfortunately, it would be another 6-8 years before I discovered that the reverse was true of Oakland... the first year I was in Oakland I did not feel particularly comfortable despite that I had spent a lot of time in areas that were much worse (parts of Gary Indiana for instance) and even in more depressingly crappy parts of the Bay (EPA for example). The sad thing is that it doesn't matter where you come from in the Bay suburbs, wealthy or broke... unless you have a direct connection to SF or Oakland (or SJ for that matter) you will internalize the media drivel even if its contrary or more applicable to your experiences in the burbs. EPA is a much ****tier place to grow up than Oakland due to the complete lack of amenities or opportunities within EPA but good luck convincing EPAers of that. Counter-intuitively, the ****ty parts of SF are (incredibly enough) even more deprived than EPA but again good luck convincing them of that.
In other words, I'd say you were on the mark the first time (unexposed suburban people don't understand Oakland).
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:33 AM
 
5 posts, read 4,062 times
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I live in Oakland and prefer it to SF. It's just a stone's throw away if I need to be in SF and it's less crowded. SF always seems to have a touristy feel when I go there it seems like most people are just wandering around lost. Oakland has more grit it's more authentic go to Chinatown in Oakland feels like you're in real China.

Crime is an issue in Oakland you need to be a little more street smart and look like you belong here.

There's this youtube video of SF people making fun of Oakland it's funny in a way because most of it is true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzkoeyhAAdk
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:25 AM
 
11 posts, read 9,865 times
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wow thanks all, a lot of this has been super helpful (especially the direct comparisons to chicago).
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Bay Area
1,490 posts, read 1,089,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbehs View Post
I lived in Hyde Park, West Rogers Park and Ukrainian Village in Chicago. When I first moved to the East Bay, I lived in one of the more popular Oakland neighborhoods (Grand Lake) just to get the lay of the land. The more I explored the city, the more comfortable I got with the neighborhoods further east. You won't see completely bombed out neighborhoods in Oakland like you do in Chicago--some of the highest crime areas look like somewhat run down suburbs. But if you were comfortable living in Hyde Park, you can definitely look farther afield than the usual Rockridge, Piedmont Avenue, Temescal recommendations you'll get to find a cheap, liveable neighborhood.
Hey man, thanks a lot, this is awesome. I've been in and around Hyde Park a million times, Humbolt Park and the such and it's usually not a problem.
Yeah there's crime and gangs around, but if you're minding your own business you're usually fine.
There's beatings, robbings, and stabbings in my neighborhood occasionally and it's because the unscrupulous hop in a car and come to the 'nice areas' thinking it'll be an easy grab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simulcra View Post
wow thanks all, a lot of this has been super helpful (especially the direct comparisons to chicago).
X2, thanks guys.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:21 PM
 
2 posts, read 805 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbehs View Post
I lived in Hyde Park, West Rogers Park and Ukrainian Village in Chicago. When I first moved to the East Bay, I lived in one of the more popular Oakland neighborhoods (Grand Lake) just to get the lay of the land. The more I explored the city, the more comfortable I got with the neighborhoods further east. You won't see completely bombed out neighborhoods in Oakland like you do in Chicago--some of the highest crime areas look like somewhat run down suburbs. But if you were comfortable living in Hyde Park, you can definitely look farther afield than the usual Rockridge, Piedmont Avenue, Temescal recommendations you'll get to find a cheap, liveable neighborhood.
Rbehs--I was wondering if I can follow up on what you said here. What did you mean by if you are comfortable living in Hyde Park, you can look farther from Rockridge, Piedmont, etc.

I was just curious when you said that because I live in Hyde Park right now and I might be moving to San Fran. I love Hyde Park and live in a very nice area (actually about 4 blocks from Pres Obama's house). Did you mean it has certain similiarties to Hyde Park?? Thanks.
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Old 04-18-2012, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
17,094 posts, read 11,284,455 times
Reputation: 12479
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegold77 View Post
Rbehs--I was wondering if I can follow up on what you said here. What did you mean by if you are comfortable living in Hyde Park, you can look farther from Rockridge, Piedmont, etc.

I was just curious when you said that because I live in Hyde Park right now and I might be moving to San Fran. I love Hyde Park and live in a very nice area (actually about 4 blocks from Pres Obama's house). Did you mean it has certain similiarties to Hyde Park?? Thanks.
Piedmont Ave/Rockridge/Temescal/Grand Lake are all nice to very nice area in Oakland. If you are OK with a bit more crime/grit then you can look further out. But if you don't want much then stick to these oft recommended areas.
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