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Downtown San Jose just doesn't have enough to do, and it's boring. I went there for a medical conference in 2003. We were staying at the Hilton on San Carlos St. Afterwards, me and a few colleagues tried to find a place to chat, and discuss the day, nothing around in walking distance. So we ended up just staying in the hotel.
Things may have changed since 2003, but I remember it being barren back then.
Maybe 5%.
I went to a concert not long ago at the Arena. We managed to find cheaper parking a few blocks away. IT was a dead zone, and it was only 5 blocks from the "Action." I noticed a couple of new places since my previous experience in around 2006, but not exactly hopping. One of my coworkers lives there an loves it. But he doesn't venture far from home. He lives about 5 miles from his childhood home, and 7 from his grandparents (and parents childhood home). So I don't 100% trust his opinion.
Every time I go to DT SJ, I think of this history book about notable architecture in Downtown SJ. All of the great architecture was torn down for a parking lot in the 50s and 60s. It was depressing.
Here are some perfect descriptions of what happened to DT SJ:
Quote:
Familiar with the corner of Third and San Fernando? The one occupied by overpriced bile-colored condos? Well, that's where Joseph Belloli ran the biggest supermarket in San Jose in the late 1800s. How about the hideous Valley Title Building at the southeast corner of First and San Carlos that houses the Chamber of Commerce? That corner used to house the Hale Brothers department store in 1932. Ask any old-timer. They'll tell you the store closed in 1968.
Think of all the times you've staggered out of the SoFA district and passed by that Vietnamese supermarket at Second and San Salvador. Ever wondered about that parking lot across the street, the one next to Bo Town restaurant and usually populated by pigeons? That site used to be the dwelling place of Benjamin Cory, San Jose's first physician. The photo is on page 121, and Cory was a member of San Jose's first City Council.
What also happened: SJPD shutting everything down, and not enough effort by the city to bring grocery and retail stores downtown for all the people they want to live there. It ain't dead, especially on event nights, but bonehead decisions like shutting down Concerts in the Park isn't helping engage outsiders' interests in the city. Maybe that's the secret agenda?
Yes Oakland is dangerous, but it still has great qualities- great weather, great restaurants, decent nightlife, ect. I've been to Detroit 3 times in the last 4 months- its beyond depressing and is borderline uninhabitable. A trip to Detroit will make you appreciate Oakland.
Yes, parts of Oakland are dangerous, but it still has great qualities- great weather, great restaurants, decent nightlife, ect. I've been to Detroit 3 times in the last 4 months- its beyond depressing and is borderline uninhabitable. A trip to Detroit will make you appreciate Oakland.
To me, SF & Oakland are very comparable to where I currently live in the Baltimore-Washington corridor. SF is more like DC. First of all, SF & DC are mid-sized big cities and are not the most dominant cities on the West and East Coasts. Both SF & DC have higher overall crime rates than both NYC and LA. Like DC, SF is a very gentrified city, as a whole. In SF & DC in 2012, you have upper middle class/wealthy White people in the form of trustafarians, yuppies, hipsters etc. living a few feet away from gang bangers and drug dealers. Also like DC, SF is the international hub for the region. Both SF & DC have a much larger share of ultra-wealthy people. Because of this, SF & DC have comparably lower crime rates than Oakland and Baltimore. However, SF & DC are both alike in the fact that their worst ghetto areas are remote and tucked away for the most part. An out-of-towner is going to have a hard time finding Randolph Street in Lakeview, Hunter's Point or Sunnydale in San Francisco just like an out-of-towner is not going to easily stumble into Trinidad or Anacostia in DC.
Oakland is more like Baltimore. Both of these cities are second-tier cities and are not considered to be world class on any level. Both of these cities have very economically depressed crime-ridden areas as soon as you enter the city limits. As soon as you cross the Bay Bridge, you are smack in West Oakland. If you drive into Baltimore any route except I-95, you will be driving through the hood. For example, if you take route 40 coming from the south, you will be driving the rough blocks of Edmondson Village. Instead of these areas being tucked away, they make up large portions of Oakland and Baltimore. But does that mean the worst blocks in Oakland are worse than the worst blocks in SF? No. In terms of crime, many Bay Area natives lump places in San Francisco like Lakeview and Hunter's Point in the same category as West Oakland and Sobrante Park. Oakland simply has more widespread poverty than San Francisco and has much less wealthy and upper middle class areas comparatively. This is not really debatable seeing as San Francisco has one of the highest concentrations of billionaires and millionaires in America and the world. While Oakland does have affluent folks living in the hills, there is nowhere near as much wealth in Oakland than in SF proportionally or in terms of raw numbers. The wealthier, sleepy and more safe northwestern half of SF (with the exception of the rougher blocks of the Western Addition) buffers the high crime rates of the poorer, historically terrible neighborhoods in the southern half of San Francisco. As a result, the overall averaged crime rate of SF is a lot lower than Oakland.
Last edited by goldenchild08; 07-21-2012 at 11:59 PM..
What also happened: SJPD shutting everything down, and not enough effort by the city to bring grocery and retail stores downtown for all the people they want to live there. It ain't dead, especially on event nights, but bonehead decisions like shutting down Concerts in the Park isn't helping engage outsiders' interests in the city. Maybe that's the secret agenda?
The Music in the Park was largely a financial issue. They had to pay the cops overtime to police it. And it was attracting thugs who were vandalizing and creating problems for local businesses (but not patronizing them, for the most part). Overall, it was a money loser for the City and not that helpful for most of the downtown businesses.
I agree with you on the shopping, though. However, I think they have made efforts to rectify that. The Ross that went in is nice (compared to other Ross stores I've seen) and seems to be popular. The Safeway is there. There is going to be a new grocery store on 6th & Santa Clara to replace the vacant storefront that was previously occupied by a Mexican grocery store. There are plenty of restaurants. It's not a shopper's paradise, but better than it used to be. Now that there are more people living downtown, there will actually be enough people to shop in the stores.
Downtown San Jose just doesn't have enough to do, and it's boring. I went there for a medical conference in 2003. We were staying at the Hilton on San Carlos St. Afterwards, me and a few colleagues tried to find a place to chat, and discuss the day, nothing around in walking distance. So we ended up just staying in the hotel.
Things may have changed since 2003, but I remember it being barren back then.
Maybe I'm being defensive, because I live and work downtown, but SJ's downtown has improved significantly since 2003. A huge 9 floor library opened up in August 2003 on 4th & San Fernando. Plenty of restaurants. A Safeway grocery store. New high rise housing. BTW, San Carlos is a bit of a dead zone for restaurants, but one block north on San Fernando, you'll find plenty of eateries.
No, it's probably not going to win any awards, but SJs downtown has steadily improved ever since I moved here in 1996. I have a friend who lives in downtown SF, near the Montgomery BART. I have to say I really think downtown SJ is more livable than downtown SF. Besides better weather, downtown SJ has: a library, better grocery shopping right there, and stores/restaurants that are open on weekends (many stores in the Financial District are closed on Sundays/Weekends).
Not downtown San Jose. Always known as one of the nation's cleanest.
It is impressively clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
True! DT SJ is a work in progress...... not quite a destination, but growing in the whole city feeling.
It is a slow work in progress, though. Kinda like Fort Worth, for example, although SJ and FW are starting to become more truly urban cities with urban centers in the process of being revitalized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenchild08
To me, SF & Oakland are very comparable to where I currently live in the Baltimore-Washington corridor.
Even though I cut out the rest of your SF vs. Oakland to DC vs. Baltimore analogy, it really is quite good.
One can take a train from SF to Oakland and vice versa, and likewise b/t DC and Baltimore.
Let's also talk about an analogy, albeit a little loose, with the university systems:
The SF side of the bay (SF, Peninsula, Silicon Valley) has more convenient access to more universities: UCSF (world-renowned medical center), Stanford (most prestigious overall), Santa Clara, USF, SFSU, and Notre Dame de Namur. (I could also really stretch this list to include SJSU and UC-Santa Cruz, but they're far enough away from SF, IMO.) The Oakland side of the bay (Oakland, rest of East Bay, Solano County) doesn't have as many universities to choose from, but it has access to the most prestigious public university in the world, Berkeley, which rivals Stanford academically and athletically; UC-Davis also has an MBA satellite in San Ramon and their main campus is less than an hour from the East Bay, and there's also CSU-East Bay in the ghetto known as Hayward.
Likewise, with DC, you have the world-prestigious Georgetown, which has a world-renowned medical center; George Washington U. and UM-College Park are very well respected, too, and American, Howard and George Mason are also great schools, with UDC being the city public university (although far worse off then SFSU). With Baltimore, there's also not as much to choose from, but Johns Hopkins is competitive with Georgetown in terms of overall academic quality; Towson's also a great school, as is Loyola, UM-Baltimore County is becoming more known nationally, and there's Morgan State. I'm sure I am forgetting some other universities, but I think you get my point.
It is a slow work in progress, though. Kinda like Fort Worth, for example, although SJ and FW are starting to become more truly urban cities with urban centers in the process of being revitalized.
Even though I cut out the rest of your SF vs. Oakland to DC vs. Baltimore analogy, it really is quite good.
One can take a train from SF to Oakland and vice versa, and likewise b/t DC and Baltimore.
Let's also talk about an analogy, albeit a little loose, with the university systems:
The SF side of the bay (SF, Peninsula, Silicon Valley) has more convenient access to more universities: UCSF (world-renowned medical center), Stanford (most prestigious overall), Santa Clara, USF, SFSU, and Notre Dame de Namur. (I could also really stretch this list to include SJSU and UC-Santa Cruz, but they're far enough away from SF, IMO.) The Oakland side of the bay (Oakland, rest of East Bay, Solano County) doesn't have as many universities to choose from, but it has access to the most prestigious public university in the world, Berkeley, which rivals Stanford academically and athletically; UC-Davis also has an MBA satellite in San Ramon and their main campus is less than an hour from the East Bay, and there's also CSU-East Bay in the ghetto known as Hayward.
Likewise, with DC, you have the world-prestigious Georgetown, which has a world-renowned medical center; George Washington U. and UM-College Park are very well respected, too, and American, Howard and George Mason are also great schools, with UDC being the city public university (although far worse off then SFSU). With Baltimore, there's also not as much to choose from, but Johns Hopkins is competitive with Georgetown in terms of overall academic quality; Towson's also a great school, as is Loyola, UM-Baltimore County is becoming more known nationally, and there's Morgan State. I'm sure I am forgetting some other universities, but I think you get my point.
Mills College in Oakland is also worth mentioning.
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