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Unread 02-10-2013, 08:35 PM
 
Location: South Korea
5,246 posts, read 5,671,710 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by legal_eagle View Post
Yes, but that causes the bags to wear out earlier and, of course, using a washing machine consumes electricity and water, and spews sudsy water into the environment.

And now sfgate.com is starting to report the truth about the misguided bag ban:

S.F.'s plastic bag ban may be unhealthy - SFGate
Debra Saunders is a far-right GOP opinion columnist that for some hare-brained reason is employed as a token by the Chron. That article should really be labeled as an editorial.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
4,965 posts, read 5,095,423 times
Reputation: 2822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Strange coincidence you mention environmental volunteerism...

I too was a volunteer and our project was to save the virgin forest by urging people to use plastic instead of paper bags...

We presented petitions to the store managers urging them to help save the trees.
Then I guess you don't see petroleum as a finite resource...after all plastic bags are made with petro chemicals (not sure which is worse, paper processing or petrochemical processing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Never once have I just tossed a grocery bag into the landfill... they are re-purposed or recycled.
Good for you. but what about all the other a-aholes out there. I spend a lot of time on the water, and I see a lot of plastic bags lining the shore lines


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I also have been a regular at Earth Day and a stream and creek volunteer in my city...
all the more reason you should support a paper bag ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Don't come across bags in the creeks I clean... mostly broken glass bottles, shopping carts and bicycles...
too bad you can write laws against stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Since the 50's we have had emission regulations in California and the Vehicle Code provides for a citation for smoking vehicles.
Which most other states have adopted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Could very well have been different on the East Coast...
I grew up in the Hudson River Valley... a very environmentally and socially conscious area... Even the Republicans regard the natural environment as a valuable resource

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Does New York presently ban plastic garbage bags and make customers pay for paper?
Cities, towns and villages are adopting bans.
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Unread 02-10-2013, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Oakland CA
6,667 posts, read 8,620,164 times
Reputation: 6466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Strange coincidence you mention environmental volunteerism...

I too was a volunteer and our project was to save the virgin forest by urging people to use plastic instead of paper bags...

We presented petitions to the store managers urging them to help save the trees.

Never once have I just tossed a grocery bag into the landfill... they are re-purposed or recycled.

This was also the time of books like the population bomb and the coming Ice Age...

I also have been a regular at Earth Day and a stream and creek volunteer in my city...

Don't come across bags in the creeks I clean... mostly broken glass bottles, shopping carts and bicycles...

Since the 50's we have had emission regulations in California and the Vehicle Code provides for a citation for smoking vehicles.

Could very well have been different on the East Coast...

Does New York presently ban plastic garbage bags and make customers pay for paper?
But times change and we know better now.

My father, after his first heart attack, was told to give up butter and switch to margarine because it was better for you. He died from a heart attack in 1981. We now know that trans fats are really bad... but we didn't know that then.

My sister just had a TIA -- mini stroke. Thirty years ago, her old blood pressure numbers wouldn't have been very alarming.... now she was in the hospital for two days.

Thirty years ago I wouldn't have been considered diabetic....now I'm on medication and constant monitoring...

So back then we wanted to save trees.... an honorable thing. But now, tons of plastic bags end up in the oceans. And they never biodegrade. And we learned this isn't a good thing.

Change isn't a bad thing here....
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Unread 02-11-2013, 03:21 PM
 
333 posts, read 213,168 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
But times change and we know better now.

My father, after his first heart attack, was told to give up butter and switch to margarine because it was better for you. He died from a heart attack in 1981. We now know that trans fats are really bad... but we didn't know that then.

My sister just had a TIA -- mini stroke. Thirty years ago, her old blood pressure numbers wouldn't have been very alarming.... now she was in the hospital for two days.

Thirty years ago I wouldn't have been considered diabetic....now I'm on medication and constant monitoring...

So back then we wanted to save trees.... an honorable thing. But now, tons of plastic bags end up in the oceans. And they never biodegrade. And we learned this isn't a good thing.

Change isn't a bad thing here....
But that begs the question: where is the proof (i.e., not your opinion) that paper bags are a problem? How much of our nonrenewable resources are going into paper bags? Do you have proof that paper bags don't biodegrade?

I'm hopeful that these news stories will lay the groundwork for reversing this law. Of course, hitting businesses in their pocketbooks will spur the quickest change. I saw a woman using a free (plastic!) produce bag over the weekend to pack up her few items at my local grocery store. Businesses can't collect for those, and they will soon be swirling around in the Pacific. Oh well, the law of unintended consequences is at it again!
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Unread 02-12-2013, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Oakland CA
6,667 posts, read 8,620,164 times
Reputation: 6466
Quote:
Originally Posted by legal_eagle View Post
But that begs the question: where is the proof (i.e., not your opinion) that paper bags are a problem? How much of our nonrenewable resources are going into paper bags? Do you have proof that paper bags don't biodegrade?

I'm hopeful that these news stories will lay the groundwork for reversing this law. Of course, hitting businesses in their pocketbooks will spur the quickest change. I saw a woman using a free (plastic!) produce bag over the weekend to pack up her few items at my local grocery store. Businesses can't collect for those, and they will soon be swirling around in the Pacific. Oh well, the law of unintended consequences is at it again!
The fact of the matter is you can carry your own reusable bags and save trees, and oceans can be safe from plastic bags.

I frankly wish the whole country would get on the band wagon for this.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 01:11 AM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
6,978 posts, read 5,163,035 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
But times change and we know better now.

My father, after his first heart attack, was told to give up butter and switch to margarine because it was better for you. He died from a heart attack in 1981. We now know that trans fats are really bad... but we didn't know that then.

My sister just had a TIA -- mini stroke. Thirty years ago, her old blood pressure numbers wouldn't have been very alarming.... now she was in the hospital for two days.

Thirty years ago I wouldn't have been considered diabetic....now I'm on medication and constant monitoring...

So back then we wanted to save trees.... an honorable thing. But now, tons of plastic bags end up in the oceans. And they never biodegrade. And we learned this isn't a good thing.

Change isn't a bad thing here....
Progress ain't easy, especially when we grow up in a culture that often embraces and encourages regression back to simpler, more familiar behaviors.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Oakland CA
6,667 posts, read 8,620,164 times
Reputation: 6466
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdumbgod View Post
Progress ain't easy, especially when we grow up in a culture that often embraces and encourages regression back to simpler, more familiar behaviors.
While that's true -- some behaviors make life so much harder and aren't easily done today. For instance -- even though I'm 53, I grew up with a wringer washer, and all us girls had to help with laundry. We had to braid our hair and put a scarf around our heads so long strands wouldn't get caught in the wringer. You filled the washer with a hose, and put in the soap and put in the first load. Let it agitate for 10 minutes, then feed each piece through the wringer into the water filled wash sink. Then you hand agitated the clothing to rinse, change the wringer position and feed each piece through to the next water filled sink (ever wonder why all the old houses had two really big old sinks in the basement? Laundry.... that's how every one did it then) and that rinse usually held the fabric softener with bluing. Agitate once more -- by hand -- wring once more into a basket, and then snap each piece of clothing to hang dry.

There were three of us -- one sister per rinse tub, Mom handled the wash and one sister hung the clothes. Oh yeah -- you also kept using the same wash water over and over. We could kick out a family of five's laundry in a morning.

And before we had garbage disposals, we used a basket strainer to put food waste into and at the end of the meal, we would take several layers of newspaper, dump the food waste into it and wash the strainer, and tightly wrap the trash and take it out to the garbage.

Who gets newspapers now?

I think we can change and this would be a change for the better.
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Unread 02-12-2013, 04:49 PM
 
333 posts, read 213,168 times
Reputation: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
The fact of the matter is you can carry your own reusable bags and save trees, and oceans can be safe from plastic bags.

I frankly wish the whole country would get on the band wagon for this.
Again implicitly admitting that the paper-bag boogie man is a phantom.

I'll stick with the paper bags and cardboard boxes (Amazon, et al.) I get for free.
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Unread 02-13-2013, 12:24 AM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
6,978 posts, read 5,163,035 times
Reputation: 3980
Quote:
Originally Posted by legal_eagle View Post

I'll stick with the paper bags and cardboard boxes (Amazon, et al.) I get for free.
Nothing is "free."
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Unread 10-18-2013, 05:02 PM
 
12,572 posts, read 21,901,468 times
Reputation: 6928
The local newspaper on page one has a story saying, "Plastic Bag Ban Spurs Shoplifting"

The gist of the story is the ban may be good for the environment, but bad for the stores due to increased theft...

It also mentions the 10 cent current bag fee may be increased to 25 cents in 2015 to encourage canvas bags...
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