Is anyone else angry about the mandatory paper-bag charge? (Oakland: neighborhood, school)

[legal_eagle]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

If there was a statewide ban, would you go out of state for groceries?

Kind of remarkable the lengths people will go try and maintain living in the old days. Gas is cheaper over state lines too...

I want to send a message to the SF merchants who knuckled under to this absurd law. So when I'm in other communities for work or other reasons, I make it a point to buy groceries. I hope that SF merchants feel the loss of business, and that others who feel the way I do make slight change in their personal routine to send that message loud and clear. (I often ask employees about the bag law, and they seem not happy about it because I think they have to absorb a lot of flak from disgruntled customers, although I never give the staff grief.) I don't think change simply for the sake of change is a good thing, and I have not seen any factual information implicating paper bags in an impending disaster. But, of course, that usually doesn't stop people who think they know better than everyone else.

And don't forget that practically anything can be ordered online and then delivered in a nice think cardboard box with all sorts of plastic wrapping and shock absorbing material! Oh the horror!

[packer43064]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

What I have failed to get across is plastic bags are not banned statewide or country wide and even in the areas were they are no longer given away for most purchases, they are available for loose/unpackaged items as well as for purchase.

It would seem we are again being used as an experiment for social engineering.

Also as mentioned... their are biodegradable plastic bags readily available.

Some seem to believe people living in the affected areas are just not capable of acting responsible with something as innocuous as a plastic bag...

I guess I just have more faith in people.

You live near the ocean. Big difference from someone living in say Kentucky. Sure there are rivers and streams, but I guess they value ocean sea creatures over a mongoose or a beaver. Who knows. Bring a bag...didn't even need a thread for this.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Some seem to believe people living in the affected areas are just not capable of acting responsible with something as innocuous as a plastic bag...

I guess I just have more faith in people.

Originally Posted by legal_eagle

I want to send a message to the SF merchants who knuckled under to this absurd law. So when I'm in other communities for work or other reasons, I make it a point to buy groceries. I hope that SF merchants feel the loss of business, and that others who feel the way I do make slight change in their personal routine to send that message loud and clear. (I often ask employees about the bag law, and they seem not happy about it because I think they have to absorb a lot of flak from disgruntled customers, although I never give the staff grief.) I don't think change simply for the sake of change is a good thing, and I have not seen any factual information implicating paper bags in an impending disaster. But, of course, that usually doesn't stop people who think they know better than everyone else.

And don't forget that practically anything can be ordered online and then delivered in a nice think cardboard box with all sorts of plastic wrapping and shock absorbing material! Oh the horror!

Is this the hill you both wish to die on? This is the line in the sand? Talk about first world problems.

Years ago, when I was young, decisions were made that affected things we've always done, and we coped. NO -- not only coped -- we FLOURISHED.

Our garbage company decided that they no longer wanted to pick up trash cans, they issued heavy plastic bags. And we were no longer charged per pick up, we had to buy the plastic bags -- which were equivaliently priced to pickups -- and we had to buy them from them, they were marked.

I'm sure the garbage company thought "these people now have the ability to throw away more stuff than just what one can holds..... we'll clean up on their cleaning up!"

And I'm sure in the first month they did.... till people realized they would have to buy MORE bags.

Within two months everyone installed garbage disposals, cans were being stomped flat, boxes were broken down and most people made sure they bought stuff with little packaging and the garbage company was picking up every two to three weeks at most houses. (This was way before recycling)

Six months later, the garbage company went back to picking up garbage cans.... but we had learned enough that we didn't need the big cans -- almost all the families (of 5-6 people, normal where we lived) used the small cans. So we still saved money.

And Ultrarunner -- doing what I do and having more faith in people, I've learned -- they will always disappoint you. Much easier to assume they will disappoint you and be (rarely) pleasantly surprised when they don't.

Make lemonade, guys! Spread the word of washable t shirt bags!

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

And Ultrarunner -- doing what I do and having more faith in people, I've learned -- they will always disappoint you. Much easier to assume they will disappoint you and be (rarely) pleasantly surprised when they don't.

Make lemonade, guys! Spread the word of washable t shirt bags!

That would mean having to get t-shirts first.

No doubt, 30 years of property management has definitely affected how I see things...

I just got a call the 4 yard recycle dumpster at one of the properties is filled with concrete and construction debris... the lock was cut and is laying on the ground.

As they say, the buck stops here. In a few minutes I will be out the door with my truck and trailer and dumpster dive to remove the mess. Exactly how I planned to spend my Sunday afternoon.

Don't really have other options... pick-up is Monday as early as 6 am... if Waste Management deems the recyclables are contaminated... they will charge me at least $200 for a special pick-up.

It's my faith in politicians and their grand decrees that gets old... literally, because I am the one that has to clean up after them.

As to the topic of this post... yes, I am concerned another service, one that I used, has been taken away by the stroke of a pen.

It won't make any difference in the scheme of things... only make me feel a little better by patronizing a store that still provides customer service...

It's not like I can really shop locally anyway... living in East Oakland. My Safeway and Lucky stores closed decades ago

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

That would mean having to get t-shirts first.

No doubt, 30 years of property management has definitely affected how I see things...

I just got a call the 4 yard recycle dumpster at one of the properties is filled with concrete and construction debris... the lock was cut and is laying on the ground.

As they say, the buck stops here. In a few minutes I will be out the door with my truck and trailer and dumpster dive to remove the mess. Exactly how I planned to spend my Sunday afternoon.

Don't really have other options... pick-up is Monday as early as 6 am... if Waste Management deems the recyclables are contaminated... they will charge me at least $200 for a special pick-up.

It's my faith in politicians and their grand decrees that gets old... literally, because I am the one that has to clean up after them.

As to the topic of this post... yes, I am concerned another service, one that I used, has been taken away by the stroke of a pen.

It won't make any difference in the scheme of things... only make me feel a little better by patronizing a store that still provides customer service...

It's not like I can really shop locally anyway... living in East Oakland. My Safeway and Lucky stores closed decades ago

Don't get me started on dumpsters. We pull them the night before pickup and last week someone tossed a sofa on one during the night. The guy got out of the truck and pulled it off, but my clients end up paying for us to take a sofa to the dump.... we don't haul for free. The garbage company lectured me on that, when I called about them not picking up our recycling AGAIN -- two 3 yd bins have been out ALL LAST WEEK due to a relief driver.

I lecture my residents about making sure their construction people take their own stuff to the dump like they are supposed to -- our dumpsters are NOT for them. But they insist on using cheap construction people, and this is what cheap construction people do. And if my husband has to dig out construction debris from recycling (and he does) and we find out who it is dumping (and we usually do) they get an invoice from ME via the HOA.

But -- to get this back on topic -- if it's the law, stores charging for bags isn't a lack of customer service.

I'm glad about this if only for one thing -- I would tell the clerk to NOT bag my milk gallons and they wouldn't listen... they'd not only bag them, they would double bag them, and on more than a few occasions TRIPLE bag them. So I'd end up going home with 10 bags for two gallons of milk and some stuff for dinner. It was stupidly insane.

Look for small t-shirts at Saint Vincent de Paul on sale days! Hubs get them for a buck!

[jeffredo]

The whole situation is unnecessary and wasn't an issue back in the day when stores and shops used paper bags. They do degrade over time pretty quickly. Plastic bags really didn't come into widespread use until after 1980 and we survived fine with paper for many decades. Figures once they got going with the plastic bag ban they'd extrapolate it into legislation to control those evil paper sacks that turn into mulch after a couple of good rains (if they ended up in the street). The 60s and 70s were a lot more "green" with the widespread use of paper and cardboard instead of plastic bags and containers - and they weren't even trying.

[packer43064]

Originally Posted by jeffredo

The whole situation is unnecessary and wasn't an issue back in the day when stores and shops used paper bags. They do degrade over time pretty quickly. Plastic bags really didn't come into widespread use until after 1980 and we survived fine with paper for many decades. Figures once they got going with the plastic bag ban they'd extrapolate it into legislation to control those evil paper sacks that turn into mulch after a couple of good rains (if they ended up in the street). The 60s and 70s were a lot more "green" with the widespread use of paper and cardboard instead of plastic bags and containers - and they weren't even trying.

I'm not sure what kind of plastic bag you have been used to....these plastic bags take hundred of year to fully decompose. A cardboard type bag will be gone in months to a year at tops. Slight difference rookie.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by packer43064

I'm not sure what kind of plastic bag you have been used to....these plastic bags take hundred of year to fully decompose. A cardboard type bag will be gone in months to a year at tops. Slight difference rookie.

Some of the Health Food stores I have been to provide Bioplastic bags...

A problem with Bioplastics is they should be kept separate from the more common plastics because they are made of different materials and must be recycled differently adding to the confusion.

Also, more common in Europe, the birthplace of modern plastic bags.

My school did a project to raise environmental awareness for Earth Day about 30 years ago... the message was simply switching to plastic would save millions of trees each year and improve the air we breath.

There were many articles at the time condemning paper and favoring plastic... just goes to show

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

My school did a project to raise environmental awareness for Earth Day about 30 years ago... the message was simply switching to plastic would save millions of trees each year and improve the air we breath.

Save trees, petroleum, and aquatic habitats - go with these:

[Charles22]

I've learned to carry a variety of shopping bags in my car but I always end up carrying too many of them into the store in case I fill up my cart.