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Old 12-02-2012, 04:13 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,913 posts, read 6,568,130 times
Reputation: 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Well you did say the majority of "gang violence" in Oakland isn't really gang violence and that it was turf wars between "2-3 people" in crews (what's the difference between a "crew" and a "gang" anyway). If that isn't a "blind eye", it's certainly misleading and inaccurate.

2-3 person crews don't rack up 120 homicides in a year (or even half that). Who would they shoot at? Wouldn't they just kill each other off? Yet homicides in Oakland are climbing again. Heck, when Al Capone was in his prohibition hey day, he didn't rack up even half of that in one year. Oakland has a huge gang violence problem and your statements seem to brush it all under the rug, I think that's what bmw is getting at.

Unlike you I was actually on the ground in said Oakland streets and know people who are "involved" in them. It's the way I said it was. The one being misleading and inaccurate is you.

And I didn't say the crews are 2-3 people (though some of them are), I said the disputes that result in the bodies are often between 2-3 people and are generally either about drug money or personal conflicts. It's not hundreds and thousands of people organized to fight against hundreds and thousands of others they don't know like it is in LA. The only mass organization in the Bay Area happens in jail. Gangs function like mini-nations that declare war on others. Oakland turfs function like groups of friends who sell drugs together and sometimes get into it with other people or even amongst themselves.

Last edited by Nineties Flava; 12-02-2012 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:20 PM
 
Location: AK, CA, FL, WA, AUS
6,269 posts, read 4,811,742 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Well you did say the majority of "gang violence" in Oakland isn't really gang violence and that it was turf wars between "2-3 people" in crews. If that isn't a "blind eye", it's certainly misleading and inaccurate.

2-3 person crews don't rack up 120 homicides in a year (or even half that). Who would they shoot at? Wouldn't they just kill each other off? Yet homicides in Oakland are climbing again. Heck, when Al Capone was in his prohibition hey day, he didn't rack up even half of that in one year. Oakland has a huge gang violence problem and your statements seem to brush it all under the rug, I think that's what bmw is getting at.
Exactly!

People get offended whenever someone brings it up. The most common response here, "well what city doesn't have crime or what city would you be able to mouth off and not end up with 36 bullets."

Officers are making less arrests, while crime is spiking. From 2008 to 2011 there was a 42% drop in robbery arrests, 43% drop in drunk driving arrests, 44% drop in weapons possession arrests, 36% drop in domestic abuse arrests and a 81% drop in drug manufacturing and dealing arrests.

Meanwhile, this year saw a 23% increase in murders, muggings and other major offenses. In 2010 and 2011, only 29% of homicides were solved and this year is even worse. In 2009, 50% of homicides were solved, so Oakland is moving in the wrong direction in terms of crime.

You have a local government that cuts hundreds of police officers and gives more rights to the criminals than the police and people wonder why Oakland's crime rate is spiraling out of control.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,913 posts, read 6,568,130 times
Reputation: 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Exactly!

People get offended whenever someone brings it up. The most common response here, "well what city doesn't have crime or what city would you be able to mouth off and not end up with 36 bullets."

Officers are making less arrests, while crime is spiking. From 2008 to 2011 there was a 42% drop in robbery arrests, 43% drop in drunk driving arrests, 44% drop in weapons possession arrests, 36% drop in domestic abuse arrests and a 81% drop in drug manufacturing and dealing arrests.

Meanwhile, this year saw a 23% increase in murders, muggings and other major offenses. In 2010 and 2011, only 29% of homicides were solved and this year is even worse. In 2009, 50% of homicides were solved, so Oakland is moving in the wrong direction in terms of crime.

You have a local government that cuts hundreds of police officers and gives more rights to the criminals than the police and people wonder why Oakland's crime rate is spiraling out of control.
You call gang injunctions giving "more rights to the criminals than the police"? Yeah right. The reason why crime is up is obvious to anyone living in Oakland, there's far too few police and too much of their time is spent occupied with crap like Occupy Oakland.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,678,752 times
Reputation: 588
He thinks thousands of people are gang fighting in L.A, and it's only 2-3 people crews, personal beefs in Oakand. If that's not delusion, I don't know what is.

All I know is that L.A violent crime is dropping and is only slightly above the California average, which is impressive for CA's LARGEST city:
L.A Violent crimes per 1,000 residents (2011): 5.74 incidents

And Oakland's violent crime rate per capita is actually much higher than L.A and rising:

Oakland Violent crimes per 1,000 residents (2011): 16.12 incidents

You expect me to believe that Oakland, which per capita has THREE TIMES more violent crime than L.A, only has turf wars between 2-3 people crews, and somehow in imagination land L.A has raging gang fights between "thousands" of gang members? Can we call major BS on that claim or what?

I think someone's "on the street knowledge" needs some updating, or some truth. But let's not let facts, and the truth get in the way of someone's personal agenda.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:32 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,913 posts, read 6,568,130 times
Reputation: 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
He thinks thousands of people are gang fighting in L.A
Uh... Yeah? Not sure what to tell you other than you clearly don't know anybody personally involved in South LA or East LA for that matter either.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:32 PM
 
Location: AK, CA, FL, WA, AUS
6,269 posts, read 4,811,742 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
You call gang injunctions giving "more rights to the criminals than the police"? Yeah right. The reason why crime is up is obvious to anyone living in Oakland, there's far too few police and too much of their time is spent occupied with crap like Occupy Oakland.
I actually agree with the last two points you made
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,678,752 times
Reputation: 588
Notice how he avoids addressing that Oakland's violent crime rate is actually THREE TIMES higher than L.A?

This is why these discussions go in circles. Ignore the facts, and just press a personal agenda devoid of facts, and full of personal opinion and fantasies.

Facts:
L.A Violent crimes per 1,000 residents (2011): 5.74 incidents

Oakland Violent crimes per 1,000 residents (2011): 16.12 incidents


Mistruth/Fantasy:
"L.A has thousands of gang members killing each other off in an organized manner. Oakland homicides aren't gangs, just personal beefs, and a couple of people fighting over turf." (I still would like to know how "crews" who protect turf are different than gangs)
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:36 PM
 
Location: AK, CA, FL, WA, AUS
6,269 posts, read 4,811,742 times
Reputation: 3663
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Notice how he avoids addressing that Oakland's violent crime rate is actually THREE TIMES higher than L.A?

This is why these discussions go in circles. Ignore the facts, and just press a personal agenda devoid of facts, and full of personal opinion and fantasies.
Choosing to turn a blind eye
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,913 posts, read 6,568,130 times
Reputation: 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Notice how he avoids addressing that Oakland's violent crime rate is actually THREE TIMES higher than L.A?

This is why these discussions go in circles. Ignore the facts, and just press a personal agenda devoid of facts, and full of personal opinion and fantasies.

Facts:
L.A Violent crimes per 1,000 residents (2011): 5.74 incidents

Oakland Violent crimes per 1,000 residents (2011): 16.12 incidents


Mistruth/Fantasy:
"L.A has thousands of gang members killing each other off in an organized manner. Oakland homicides aren't gangs, just personal beefs, and a couple of people fighting over turf." (I still would like to know how "crews" who protect turf are different than gangs)

I didn't address it because LA having a lower crime rate has absolutely nothing to do with the way they organize themselves. You live in said fantasy land if you think Oakland has a worse gang problem than LA of all places ROFL.
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Old 12-02-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 1,678,752 times
Reputation: 588
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Choosing to turn a blind eye
Of course I could be wrong, and Oakland having a violent crime rate THREE times higher than L.A is nothing big. The facts mean nothing, it's all about knowing the thugs on the ground like Nineties Flava.

Maybe it's because I don't have friends in hard core South LA and East LA gangs on the streets engaged in this organized gang war that rivals the Johnny Torrio vs Dean O'Banion prohibition war of 1923. Man, I think Nineties Flava could win a Pulitzer prize if he decided to pen his war stories for Time Magazine or something.
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