Total housing costs in SF (San Francisco, San Mateo: sale, renting, HOA fees)

[tstone]

I'm curious how expensive everything truly is in the city of San Francisco. If we were to buy a decent little house in the city proper for say $800k, I can use a mortgage calculator to find my principal and interest payments will be about $3,800/mo after $200k down. (That is if 'decent house' and '$800k' can be used in the same sentence.)

However, how much does everything else cost? In Texas, these ''other things'' (like 3.2% property taxes) easily can and do break people. What are:

Property tax rate - and what's the homestead exemption?
Homeowners insurance premiums (and deductibles)
Flood insurance (earthquake for SF)
HOA fees
Electric/gas bill
Water bill

And does anyone know the average long term annual % yield in the housing market there? The stock market swings back and forth like crazy but since inception it averages roughly +12% APR.

So if any homeowners in the city, or other people in the know on this board can help I'd really appreciate it. I'm trying to get a feel for when in our lives homeownership in SF will be a possibility AND a non-burden for us, if ever.

[TwinMom06]

Are you sure you want to move to San Francisco with a family? You will not be able to live in the size of home you currently live in in Texas. I just want to give an example. My mom lives in a residential neighborhood in San Francisco called the Sunset. Her neighbor's house was just listed this week for $760K. It is a 2 BR/1BA 1400 sq ft house near 3 buslines and the light rail. The interior is original 1929 kitchen and bathrooms, so whoever buys it will probably need to redo all. There are some decent public schools in San Francisco, but for high school, they do it by lottery now, so your kid can be assigned to a high school across town in the ghetto even if you live across the street from a high school. Depending on where you plan to work, you might want to consider looking in the suburbs, unless you want to send your kids to private school.

Obviously, electricity, water, and home insurance will vary greatly depending upon which neighborhood you live in and your energy conservation habits. My sister has 1 child and her family spends $80/month for electricity and $50/month for water. Earthquake insurance has been very expensive since recent natural disasters (Hurricane Katrina, etc). We live in a condo and our homeowner association dues rose from $475 to $718/month last year due to the rise in earthquake insurance premiums.

Good luck

[TwinMom06]

Oh, I forgot your last question about % gain in property values per year. Of recent, this has been a very touchy question for all of us. If you had asked 1 year ago, I would have told you 10-30% depending upon neighborhood. This year, property values have gone down due to lack of buyers willing to buy homes nowadays. We blame it all on those sub-prime. My sister's townhouse in the hip area of Potrero Hill, purchased in Feb of this year, has depreciated 10% (based on neighbor's comp sale last month). Her husband is kicking himself everyday.

So the answer to your question is... it is very volatile right now for the short term, but for the long term, it will get better.

[tstone]

Thanks for the response. The idea is that we will be 10 years from retirement with the kids grown up and out before we make the move. I haven't heard one positive thing about public schools there. My company's HQ is in the financial district, and the chance to work there would be once in a lifetime. So it's a long-term "what if" I'm looking at now.

I realize I wouldn't be able to get what I have now, which is a 2200 sq ft 4/2/2 on 1/4 acre lot, which could sell for roughly $200,000. We're experiencing a little stagnation in value. Anyway, we'd have to pay this off first before being able to think about moving there, then get us a tenant.

So anyway HOA fees are $718/mo??? Yikes! And the HOA pays your earthquake insurance? HOA+flood insurance is that much a YEAR here, for Houston's ''500-yr'' flood plain. We're all about the high-efficient electrics, and it sounds like utilities overall are less. What's the range in HO insurance? I don't see how it can range much... there aren't tornados or bad storms there??

Makes me wonder if all these extras cancel any appreciation we may be able to get. Maybe renting is a better option, but if it's anything like TX you flush your rights down the toilet unless you want to sue... been there, done that, won my case but don't want to do it again.

Anyway, thanks again for the response.

[TwinMom06]

Well, if you are working in the financial district, you have more options as to where you could live. You could like outside of San Francisco and take the BART into SF. You can see the map on BART - Bay Area Rapid Transit District

You may want to try living near a BART line to see if you like the area before buying.

[azsundevil]

East Bay is alot cheaper and better weather Easily you can take Bart or a transbay bus or even a ferry into the FD. We are in a 3/2 townhome with 3 kids and electric averages $30/mo and HOA is close to $300. Our homeowners is around $30 a month too. Property taxes depend on the purchase price and are a little over 1%.

[humboldtrat]

If you're working in the financial district, you could live on the peninsula south of SF. Check out towns such as Millbrae, Burlingame, San Mateo, Belmont and thereabouts. Schools are generally better there than in SF. At least the weather is warmer the further away you get from the coast. It can be windy and foggy in SF much of the time. Caltrain is a commuter train between SF and these areas caltrain.com - home. Housing prices will probably be just as expensive. Property tax in San Mateo county is 1.3% of purchase price. In other words, $13,000 a year on a $1 million house. Earthquake insurance is very expensive with a very high deductable and most people don't bother having it.

[fizbin]

We live in a house that is on the tax rolls for about $850,000 but is actually worth about $1,600,000. They two values differ drastically because taxing authorities can only increase the base value 2% per year no matter what the housing market is doing, thanks to Prop 13.

Property tax, based on the lower number, is about $13,500 a year, while homeowners (mandatory if you have a mortgage) and earthquake (optional) insurance are based on a potion of the higher value and run about $4,500 each.

No HOA where I am at. Gas & electric average about 350/mo. (large old home) while water is negligible (maybe $30/mo.)

If schools are an issue there are areas with great public schools (Piedmont, an upscale town in the East Bay, for example) but you pay a premium in home prices.

[redwoodlvr]

I wouldn't recommend the Sunset. I grew up in the Sunset and not everyone can adapt to the climate, fog and cold weather. It can get depressing, just keep this in mind. The plus is you're near the ocean, but some parts of the outer Sunset are deteriorating. Some of this also has to do with the sea salt air, it ruins paint and rusts your car if you don't have a garage.

The East Bay I agree may be a better option for you and better weather. You may come closer to aquiring the housing you desire.

Best wishes.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by tstone

Thanks for the response. The idea is that we will be 10 years from retirement with the kids grown up and out before we make the move. I haven't heard one positive thing about public schools there. My company's HQ is in the financial district, and the chance to work there would be once in a lifetime. So it's a long-term "what if" I'm looking at now.

I realize I wouldn't be able to get what I have now, which is a 2200 sq ft 4/2/2 on 1/4 acre lot, which could sell for roughly $200,000. We're experiencing a little stagnation in value. Anyway, we'd have to pay this off first before being able to think about moving there, then get us a tenant.

So anyway HOA fees are $718/mo??? Yikes! And the HOA pays your earthquake insurance? HOA+flood insurance is that much a YEAR here, for Houston's ''500-yr'' flood plain. We're all about the high-efficient electrics, and it sounds like utilities overall are less. What's the range in HO insurance? I don't see how it can range much... there aren't tornados or bad storms there??

Makes me wonder if all these extras cancel any appreciation we may be able to get. Maybe renting is a better option, but if it's anything like TX you flush your rights down the toilet unless you want to sue... been there, done that, won my case but don't want to do it again.

Anyway, thanks again for the response.

Thunder and lightning are so rare they make the front page of the newspaper. We do get hard driving rains a few times a year -- most times it's just rain. We do get hail on occasion. In the 24 years I've been here, I only remember 2 tornados -- one that did damage.