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Old 12-18-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,673,852 times
Reputation: 3119

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfasciana View Post


that's not what seagram said. he was an O.G. i think i trust his opinion more than yours, no offense.


And he's naming turfs in Oakland (Acorn, Bushrod, Brookfield, etc.) which are all named after the neighborhoods. It's the same stuff that's around now (Brookfield Jungle Boyz, Acorn Mob/Gas Team, Bushrod Cold Gunnaz) only Bushrod is gentrifying now and the OPD created some very loosely defined gang injunctions on groups in North Oakland (including Bushrod Cold Gunnaz) that don't function like gangs.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:06 PM
 
1 posts, read 3,815 times
Reputation: 11
Bunch of out of town square bears in here like oakland is a wildlife safari. Segram wasnt a banger, he's a rapper from the villiage. Get this garbage out of here trolls.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:28 PM
 
24,323 posts, read 26,697,469 times
Reputation: 19745
Acorn Street Gang was raided by police
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:51 PM
 
Location: California
1,191 posts, read 1,574,598 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
"Gangs" in Oakland are more violent because money is involved. I can at least understand the motivation behind that.

But as far as defending a stupid color to the death? REALLY?
Couple things:

First, you are oversimplifying a lot. Drugs have been an integral part of LA gang scene since at least the early 1980's. Drug profits are what allowed poor guys from the ghetto to go from fist fights in the parks in 60's and 70's to shootouts with automatic weapons in the 80's and 90's. Drugs are what took them out of Los Angeles and across the country. Guys weren't showing up in St. Louis because they wanted to create more enemies. They wanted to sell their drugs. The gang attire and identity was the byproduct.

Second, LA gangs wear colors. But they are not warring over colors. The Grape Street Crips and Bounty Hunter Bloods are not warring because of colors. They have a decades long rivalry that preceded the colors. Outsiders saw red against blue and jumped on that narrative without truly understanding the personal nature of most of those tensions.

Third, if it was strictly about colors there would be no Crip on Crip violence. Yet some of the deadliest rivalries have been Crips against Crips. The Hoovers and the Rolling 60's are an unfortunate example.

Lastly, you act as if Oakland gangs fighting over money (and not colors) is somehow more altruistic. I'm sure the people in the neighborhoods where those gangs are at war don't think so. "Hey, at least our thugs don't fight over those stupid bandannas!" Come on! No one is saying that.

Let's avoid qualifying criminal behavior. There are no redeeming characteristics in any of it.
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Old 12-18-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 3,995,372 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
Couple things:

First, you are oversimplifying a lot. Drugs have been an integral part of LA gang scene since at least the early 1980's. Drug profits are what allowed poor guys from the ghetto to go from fist fights in the parks in 60's and 70's to shootouts with automatic weapons in the 80's and 90's.

Second, LA gangs wear colors. But they are not warring over colors. The Grape Street Crips and Bounty Hunter Bloods are not warring because of colors. They have a decades long rivalry that preceded the colors. Outsiders saw red against blue and jumped on that narrative without truly understanding the personal nature of most of those tensions.

Third, if it was strictly about colors there would be no Crip on Crip violence. Yet some of the deadliest rivalries have been Crips against Crips. The Hoovers and the Rolling 60's are an unfortunate example.

Lastly, you act as if Oakland gangs fighting over money (and not colors) is somehow more altruistic. I'm sure the people in the neighborhoods where those gangs are at war don't think so. "Hey, at least our thugs don't fight over those stupid bandannas!" Come on! No one is saying that.

Let's avoid qualifying criminal behavior. There are no redeeming characteristic in any of it.
Damn. Excellent post.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:30 PM
 
Location: The Bay
6,914 posts, read 14,673,852 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDude1 View Post
Couple things:

First, you are oversimplifying a lot. Drugs have been an integral part of LA gang scene since at least the early 1980's. Drug profits are what allowed poor guys from the ghetto to go from fist fights in the parks in 60's and 70's to shootouts with automatic weapons in the 80's and 90's. Drugs are what took them out of Los Angeles and across the country. Guys weren't showing up in St. Louis because they wanted to create more enemies. They wanted to sell their drugs. The gang attire and identity was the byproduct.

Second, LA gangs wear colors. But they are not warring over colors. The Grape Street Crips and Bounty Hunter Bloods are not warring because of colors. They have a decades long rivalry that preceded the colors. Outsiders saw red against blue and jumped on that narrative without truly understanding the personal nature of most of those tensions.

Third, if it was strictly about colors there would be no Crip on Crip violence. Yet some of the deadliest rivalries have been Crips against Crips. The Hoovers and the Rolling 60's are an unfortunate example.

Lastly, you act as if Oakland gangs fighting over money (and not colors) is somehow more altruistic. I'm sure the people in the neighborhoods where those gangs are at war don't think so. "Hey, at least our thugs don't fight over those stupid bandannas!" Come on! No one is saying that.

Let's avoid qualifying criminal behavior. There are no redeeming characteristics in any of it.
No one said the outcome of turf wars is any better than the outcome of gang wars or vice versa; as Doc has pointed out a number of times Oakland has a significantly higher violent crime rate than Los Angeles does. However, there are a number of restrictive qualities about gang life in Los Angeles that are not present in Oakland for black youth. There are no color identifiers in Oakland for turfs; as a result, I wear whatever I want wherever I want. There is no turf recruiting in Oakland; as a result, I was not harassed by them despite being out and about everyday about who I'm affiliated with or pressured into joining one because that isn't a dynamic of the black street culture here. There's no drug territory to defend or try to take in Oakland as the "territory" is the neighborhood you're born in; this is also because there's no gang recruitment.

In other words, it had no affect on me and wasn't going to have an affect on me despite that any given day I was somewhere in East Oakland because that isn't how it works up here. That is not remotely how it works in LA; if you're young and black and wandering around South LA by yourself, one of the first things people are wondering even if you aren't wearing any gang colors is what set you're from or affiliated with and failing that whose family you're a part of. The point over there is that unfamiliar faces are threatening, and for good reason.

EDIT: And a lot of it has to do with how many more people there are in Los Angeles than in Oakland. In Oakland there aren't all that many unfamiliar faces anyway... if you grow up in Oakland you'll meet people from all over the city through school, sports, youth programs, etc. There's plenty of kids in South LA who only ever go to DTLA or Hollywood on school field trips and only know Beverly Hills from 90210... It's a different kind of experience.

Last edited by Nineties Flava; 12-18-2012 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:22 PM
 
587 posts, read 1,403,922 times
Reputation: 1432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava View Post
No one said the outcome of turf wars is any better than the outcome of gang wars or vice versa; as Doc has pointed out a number of times Oakland has a significantly higher violent crime rate than Los Angeles does. However, there are a number of restrictive qualities about gang life in Los Angeles that are not present in Oakland for black youth. There are no color identifiers in Oakland for turfs; as a result, I wear whatever I want wherever I want. There is no turf recruiting in Oakland; as a result, I was not harassed by them despite being out and about everyday about who I'm affiliated with or pressured into joining one because that isn't a dynamic of the black street culture here. There's no drug territory to defend or try to take in Oakland as the "territory" is the neighborhood you're born in; this is also because there's no gang recruitment.

In other words, it had no affect on me and wasn't going to have an affect on me despite that any given day I was somewhere in East Oakland because that isn't how it works up here. That is not remotely how it works in LA; if you're young and black and wandering around South LA by yourself, one of the first things people are wondering even if you aren't wearing any gang colors is what set you're from or affiliated with and failing that whose family you're a part of. The point over there is that unfamiliar faces are threatening, and for good reason.

EDIT: And a lot of it has to do with how many more people there are in Los Angeles than in Oakland. In Oakland there aren't all that many unfamiliar faces anyway... if you grow up in Oakland you'll meet people from all over the city through school, sports, youth programs, etc. There's plenty of kids in South LA who only ever go to DTLA or Hollywood on school field trips and only know Beverly Hills from 90210... It's a different kind of experience.
This.

No, Oakland is not known for gangs when it comes to Black folks. But as I stated before, most big American cities do not have a complex gang dynamic on the level of L.A. or Chicago. Detroit, Baltimore and New Orleans are all infamous ghetto cities known for their violence. However, historically, these cities also are not known for gangs and gang violence, specifically. Baltimore may have had an influx of Bloods as an export from the prison system in the past decade or so. But the main problem in cities like Baltimore and Oakland is poverty, lack of jobs and drug dealing and the associated violence.

In Baltimore or Oakland, you can walk through some of the grimier blocks and not be accosted or victimized as an outsider because most folks involved in that life know each other and victimize people they know. Does that mean you should walk through the hood in these cities as an outsider? NO. But with a gang dynamic, people are much more likely to be accosted simply by wearing the wrong color or being the wrong race in the wrong neighborhood. Look at how different it is for Latinos in the Bay. Red or blue often spells death for Latinos in the Bay whereas it doesn't for Blacks. Young Latino males are often beaten, stabbed or shot for nothing but wearing red or blue in the Bay or simply being perceived as rival bangers by bangers .
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 3,995,372 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaticVillage View Post
This.
But with a gang dynamic, people are much more likely to be accosted simply by wearing the wrong color or being the wrong race in the wrong neighborhood.
If that were true (and I don't necessarily buy it), why is the violent crime rate TRIPLE that of L.A, in Oakland? It seems that the stats support the complete opposite based on violent crime which flourishes in Oakland, but not so much in L.A.
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:32 PM
 
3,098 posts, read 3,765,075 times
Reputation: 2580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
If that were true (and I don't necessarily buy it), why is the violent crime rate TRIPLE that of L.A, in Oakland? It seems that the stats support the complete opposite based on violent crime which flourishes in Oakland, but not so much in L.A.
Actor playing thug brutally beaten on S.F. bus - SFGate

wearing the wrong color shoes
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,225 posts, read 36,691,595 times
Reputation: 28550
PSA #1: Not all violence in Oakland is "gang related."

PSA #2: Just because violence isn't attributed to a gang doesn't mean people are pretending it didn't happen.
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