BART struggling to keep up with demand (San Francisco, Oakland: transfer, calculation)

[jade408]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

They clearly haven't seen cattle car commutes for themselves. Have you seen a SF/Daly City bound train by the time it gets to Oakland? Yikes.

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Yeah I hate taking BART from Oakland to SF, its always packed by the time it gets to the town.

Ugh...I hate it!

Originally Posted by mayorhaggar

Coming home at 5pm to Oakland I never had trouble getting a seat at Montgomery. But going to SF on BART in the morning was always a drag, the trains would be standing room only, zero seats available. Probably a lot of people go into work around 730AM to 8 and leave later than I would, more like 6 to 8pm. I think they run fewer trains after 6pm than before it, and a few times I had to work late and left around 6 or 7 it was always really bad going back to Oakland compared to 5pm.

I think if you get there at 458...you might get a seat. You can get one at Powell at 5 though.

But over the past few months, I have noticed Pittsburg trains are standing room only at 10:30 or 11pm on a weeknight leaving downtown SF. These aren't game nights either. And I always go to the first or last car. Not commute crowded of course, but full. And the connecting Richmond trains are packed too. It clears out by Macarthur, but is still reasonably crowded.

BART needs to run some trains that originate in Oakland. Maybe Glen Park to Macarthur (or Coliseum the other way) or so?

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

It's not much better after that either. My job sometimes has me way out in the city and I often don't get back to powell until 6:30. Still a nightmare although at that time it seems the Pittsburg train is a little worse. I managed to work that trip out; in the morning, get off at Montgomery to get the 38/38L before it gets too packed and on the way home, get off the bus at Powell before the Montgomery crowd floods the BART.

That's actually clever.

My son lives in the city, and I'm on the S.F/Richmond line often. If you're heading back into the tube anytime from 5PM to 6PM, don't expect to get a seat. People bring their bikes, their seeing eye dogs, their twenty laptop/tablet/ipod gadgets, it's a ridiculous mess.

The funny thing is, it's been like this for years. Anyone who claims "it's been good" has never really ridden BART. I remember the S.F/Richmond line being bad as far back as 2004.

You're lucky they're replacing the seats with the non-green cloth cushions. If you're on a 7'o clock train back to the East Bay, and your train has THOSE seats, just stand even if a seat is free. The smell is over powering.

[rkwalton]

I've been back for just over a year too. I play it tricky which just means that if I get on at a station prior to Civic Center I'll take a train going the other way. Most of the time, there is enough time to do that. I just turn on my BART app and that lets me know when a Pittsburgh/Bay Point train is getting into Civic Center. I hop on a Millbrae or SFO bound train, get off, cross the platform, and my train comes in a minute or two. I board and I get a seat.

As I live in the city now, it's not such a big deal as I use BART a lot less now. However, until they increase the frequency of trains during rush hour that's what people have to deal with. Still though, take any of NYC's subway lines during rush hour and your standing too.

Trains so packed that people not being able to get in at all is a problem, but standing room only trains is what happens in metro areas during rush hour.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by rkwalton

I've been back for just over a year too. I play it tricky which just means that if I get on at a station prior to Civic Center I'll take a train going the other way. Most of the time, there is enough time to do that. I just turn on my BART app and that lets me know when a Pittsburgh/Bay Point train is getting into Civic Center. I hop on a Millbrae or SFO bound train, get off, cross the platform, and my train comes in a minute or two. I board and I get a seat.

As I live in the city now, it's not such a big deal as I use BART a lot less now. However, until they increase the frequency of trains during rush hour that's what people have to deal with. Still though, take any of NYC's subway lines during rush hour and your standing too.

Trains so packed that people not being able to get in at all is a problem, but standing room only trains is what happens in metro areas during rush hour.

The times I couldn't get in was when I was getting on at MacArthur. It was the SFO trains coming from Pittsburg that were always worse. The trains originating from Richmond are usually not quite as bad as many of those people get on a Fremont train and transfer to the SFO trains at MacArthur. This isn't to say the Richmond trains aren't bad. They get busy right at Del Norte. Become packed at Plaza and standing room by North Berkeley. If this train is late, then it becomes too packed for everyone at MacArthur and some don't get on.

[DocGoldstein]

BART as a whole just needs to modernize. These noisy tin cans need to be more like the Metrolink trains in Los Angeles. Modern, plenty of comfortable seating, even small table areas to put your laptop down to do work, and rest rooms! Though I'm sure some West Oakland drug addict would find a way to turn the bathrooms into a drug lounge for those long trips across the Bay. Maybe not a good idea.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

BART as a whole just needs to modernize. These noisy tin cans need to be more like the Metrolink trains in Los Angeles. Modern, plenty of comfortable seating, even small table areas to put your laptop down to do work.

You clearly don't know the difference between commuter rail and heavy rail. BART is a different type of system than Metrolink and not really comparable. Metrolink barely carries 10% of the commuters BART does btw. Caltrain is comparable to Metrolink as they are the same type of system although Caltrain carries just as many people as Metrolink despite having only 80 miles of track compared to over 500 miles for Metrolink.

[DocGoldstein]

What does that have to do with anything about the comfort and accessibility of BART trains?

Have you seen someone with a wheel chair try to get onto a BART train? It takes forever for everyone to move out of the way, while the poor person is rolling around trying to not get in everyone's way.

BART trains are cramped, smelly, noisy, and it's hard to do anything besides sit down and make sure your stuff isn't stolen by the Oakland gang bangers sitting in the back of the train making noise and throwing up signs.

Metrolink on the other hand is an almost classy commute. Quiet, direct air per seat, tables to put your laptop on, a Metrolink officer patrolling the train to make sure hoodlums aren't causing trouble.

In comparison, BART trains are like a nightmare, especially after an Oakland Raider's game. It's like some sort of gang banger festival. People getting their wallets picked, and people getting shoved on the ground. It's sickening.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

What does that have to do with anything about the comfort and accessibility of BART trains?

Have you seen someone with a wheel chair try to get onto a BART train? It takes forever for everyone to move out of the way, while the poor person is rolling around trying to not get in everyone's way.

BART trains are cramped, smelly, noisy, and it's hard to do anything besides sit down and make sure your stuff isn't stolen by the Oakland gang bangers sitting in the back of the train making noise and throwing up signs.

Quite a lot considering how much larger commuter rail trains are and the fact that most are double decked and some even have bathrooms on them. If you think BART is cramped now do you think adding fold out tables on the backs of seats would help with that situation? Did you think they could somehow make BART trains magically larger or taller or something?

Yes Metrolink is so great a whopping 40K people use it every day over 500 miles of track that serves a region of 15 million compared to 400K that use BART on just over 100 miles of track covering about 3-4 million people roughly. Perhaps Metrolink has so much room because they simply don't care many passengers compared to BART.

I never hear reports of violence on BART trains, at least not like the constant stabbings on Muni.

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by sav858

Perhaps Metrolink has so much room because they simply don't care many passengers compared to BART.

Do you have any proof that's why they made their trains so comfortable and accessible? That sounds like some loony personal theory to me not based on any facts.

All I know is BART as a travel experience is noisy, smelly, and sometimes dangerous depending on the people who board the train.

Someone travelling from Santa Ana to L.A will most likely have a nice pleasant experience.

Someone travelling from Fremont to S.F (similar distance) will most likely have a much less pleasant experience.

It's not like BART is all that much cheaper either but the experience definitely is.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by sav858

Quite a lot considering how much larger commuter rail trains are and the fact that most are double decked and some even have bathrooms on them. If you think BART is cramped now do you think adding fold out tables on the backs of seats would help with that situation? Did you think they could somehow make BART trains magically larger or taller or something?

Yes Metrolink is so great a whopping 40K people use it every day over 500 miles of track that serves a region of 15 million compared to 400K that use BART on just over 100 miles of track covering about 3-4 million people roughly. Perhaps Metrolink has so much room because they simply don't care many passengers compared to BART.

I never hear reports of violence on BART trains, at least not like the constant stabbings on Muni.

So we see here that BART carries 10 times as many people on 4 times less miles of track. Metrolink seems like a colossal waste of money by comparison.