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Old 02-03-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
17,108 posts, read 11,321,042 times
Reputation: 12489
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Isolated incidents. Per capita, S.F's violent crime rate is half of Oakland's.

Just answer this. Did S.F's violent crime rate surge 23% year over year? Has the S.F.P.D lost over 200 officers since 2010 due to budget cuts?

No... no, I don't think that happened in S.F.
Considering shootings are very rare in Uptown, that would be the very definition of an isolated incident.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
17,108 posts, read 11,321,042 times
Reputation: 12489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayareaadvisor View Post
Well I've seen the Oakland cheerleaders give their opinion. It's obvious that they are biased. What counts are facts not opinions.
Choosing a place to live is about 90% based on opinions. There are no uniform facts or criteria that people use to evaluate potential neighborhoods. For example for my mom it is very critical to have space for a garden. For me it is critical to live in a walkable neighborhood with access to transit.

According to the "facts" Oakland must be a horrible place to live, but oddly enough people keep moving to town, new places (entertainment, restaurants....) keep opening, and Oakland has a range of people that live in the city from poor to affluent. It is safe to say people who are middle class and up have plenty of options for places to live. And they are still choosing to live in Oakland. Why is that? Why are young people moving to Oakland?

Maybe they have a different opinion, based on their personal experiences than you do.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:56 AM
Status: "California Uber Alles!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,472 posts, read 6,382,758 times
Reputation: 4507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayareaadvisor View Post
What counts are facts not opinions.
If you are a machine. Refer to the above post by jade408 for details ^^^
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:58 AM
 
34 posts, read 7,089 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
There are no uniform facts or criteria that people use to evaluate potential neighborhoods.

Yes there is. The uniform facts that affect real estate value are the quality of schools and the crime rate.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
17,108 posts, read 11,321,042 times
Reputation: 12489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayareaadvisor View Post
Yes there is. The uniform facts that affect real estate value are the quality of schools and the crime rate.
No those are uniform facts about real estate value. That has nothing to do with personal happiness, neighborhood suitability or individual preferences. (And it is very obvious that crime rates are not uniform across neighborhoods. Neighborhood A may have lots of crime and neighborhood B may have very little.)

Your criteria above may be of little use for someone in a different life phase or has different needs than you do.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:17 AM
 
34 posts, read 7,089 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
No those are uniform facts about real estate value. That has nothing to do with personal happiness, neighborhood suitability or individual preferences. (And it is very obvious that crime rates are not uniform across neighborhoods. Neighborhood A may have lots of crime and neighborhood B may have very little.)

Your criteria above may be of little use for someone in a different life phase or has different needs than you do.

Facts affect liveability and demand of housing. If you think people don't care about crime, think again.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:24 AM
 
13,807 posts, read 25,240,737 times
Reputation: 8009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Maybe people should just be presented the facts and truth by people willing to post them (without having to be personally attacked, called a troll, or be accused of being other people), and then be able to make a choice on whether they want to live in Oakland or not.

If Oakland is such a great city to live, that should be self-evident, one would think.
I think it is... counting my Great Grandparents... I'm the 5th generation to live here.

I was born in San Jose and in the 60's my family returned to Oakland... the neighbors thought my parents were committing child abuse... the racist comments still ring in my head.

All through my childhood and later when I bought homes... never had a bad neighbor and to this day have not. My first house was on Havenscourt and then on 92nd Ave and then over to Fruitvale and later near golf links...

Each neighborhood had people that cared about the community and looked out for each other... hardly the description of a no man's land or militarized zone.

Add to that Oakland is in the Geographic center of the Bay and has unbeatable climate... the least heating and cooling days of any major metro area in the country...

I really haven't heard anyone dispute the stats... that said, how do you account for the nearly 400k people that live here?

Obviously there are less expensive places to live and people are mobile... so it's not as if anyone is forced to live here...

There are couple of things I would like to see changed...

For starters... why are the criminals from the county and state jails released to the streets of Oakland... how about letting them walk out the gates of Santa Rita when they have served their time instead of transporting them to Oakland?

Second... whenever there are arrest headlines beamed around the world... like Occupy or Oscar Grant... the principals and the majority of those arrested don't even live in Oakland.

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 02-03-2013 at 12:08 PM..
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
17,108 posts, read 11,321,042 times
Reputation: 12489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayareaadvisor View Post
Facts affect liveability and demand of housing. If you think people don't care about crime, think again.
Schools have no impact on livability if you don't use them (or need them fr your kids).

Crime rates in individual neighborhoods in Oakland very greatly. For example, I live in an area of Oakland with very little crime. The impact of the increases in crime in Oakland have a limited impact on my day to day life, as I have a low rist lifestyle. This is true of many people who live in Oakland. Crime does not impact the entire city evenly. I am not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand.

I could easily choose to live somewhere else, but I have no need to. My neighborhood is convenient, safe and has the amenities I need to make it livable. Every time someone shares a similar account of their personal experiences living in Oakland, there is a subset of posters who aim to refute these experiences by posting global crime stats or other irrrelevant info that does not directly pertain to my experience in living in Oakland. Apparently the concept of differing crime rates across individual neighborhoods is difficult to grasp.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:44 AM
 
34 posts, read 7,089 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Schools have no impact on livability if you don't use them (or need them fr your kids).

Crime rates in individual neighborhoods in Oakland very greatly. For example, I live in an area of Oakland with very little crime. The impact of the increases in crime in Oakland have a limited impact on my day to day life, as I have a low rist lifestyle. This is true of many people who live in Oakland. Crime does not impact the entire city evenly. I am not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand.

I could easily choose to live somewhere else, but I have no need to. My neighborhood is convenient, safe and has the amenities I need to make it livable. Every time someone shares a similar account of their personal experiences living in Oakland, there is a subset of posters who aim to refute these experiences by posting global crime stats or other irrrelevant info that does not directly pertain to my experience in living in Oakland. Apparently the concept of differing crime rates across individual neighborhoods is difficult to grasp.
It's been proven that in Oakland, crime is random and violent. There was a gang who randomly shot into a crowd at an Uptown event a few nights ago. That area is not the ghetto, it is a well patronized decent neighborhood.

And do you remember about the shooting at the decent movie theatre in the decent area called Jack London Square? The cops are spat on and demoralized while the criminals are empowered and growing bolder every day. They just don't care who and where they shoot.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:47 AM
 
34 posts, read 7,089 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
For starters... why are the criminals from the county and state jails released to the streets of Oakland... how about letting them walk out the gates of Santa Rita when they have served their time instead of transporting them to Oakland?

The reason is these ex-felons have a right to return to the community they came from, that is Oakland. This is where their friends and family are, their support system. If you do not allow the felons to return to their former neighborhoods, that would be a form of discrimination.
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