San Francisco-Oakland Metro Area has worst non-peak traffic delays in the nation? (Long Beach: living, statistics)

[jsba]

Yes I have and i didn't say ALL cities on the list I said a lot. Denver, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Portland, LA and even Seattle to a certain degree are prime examples. These cities all invest a lot of money in their systems but are not even close to on the level of other places like New York or Chicago in terms of ability to use mass transit for true transit. In other words for weekend or leisure uses, or of peak usage.

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by jsba

Yes I have and i didn't say ALL cities on the list I said a lot. Denver, San Jose, Salt Lake City, Portland, LA and even Seattle to a certain degree are prime examples. These cities all invest a lot of money in their systems but are not even close to on the level of other places like New York or Chicago in terms of ability to use mass transit for true transit. In other words for weekend or leisure uses, or of peak usage.

So you have lived in all those cities and used the bus/rail system and found them not suitable for peak usage?

I find that incredibly hard to believe.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

New York metro is #2 on the list. Boston metro is #4! People don't regularly catch mass transit as a means of commute in NY or Boston?

Have you been to either city before?

Any study that doesn't have NYC as the number 1 city for mass transit is a farce, in my opinion. A lot of people have mentioned good metrics of what makes a good mass transit system, but I think another good metric is: "does the system allow an individual to live comfortably and fairly easily without a car?"

I have tried many times to get around the LA area without a car on various trips, and it is an utter nightmare and pain in the rear (think an hour/hours to get to places that are 20-40 min away in car)...I'd personally listen to mayor who has tried to live in the LA without a car over some faulty study.

I don't know anyone in real life that would honestly state LA has better mass transit than the Brea Area, or that it's even close to the level of places like Boston, NYC, DC, Chicago, etc. Just because LA spends a lot of money on their system doesn't necessarily make it super effective/useful for the average person. It is good they're making these investments, though. Certainly better than where the city was before.

[DocGoldstein]

Originally Posted by HockeyMac18

I have tried many times to get around the LA area without a car on various trips,

So you don't live in L.A?

[jsba]

No i have not lived in those places, other than Seattle. As you in your previous post about Denver that you had been there twice I have been to ALL of the places on that list some many more times than others, specifically Denver 8 times, LA to many to count and attend college down there for a year before transferring, and Portland 4 times, so therefor I am as qualified as you are to make judgments on those places mass transit.

Non the less even generalizing I doubt very much that Denver's bus have even remotely the frequencies of other areas like SF or New York. Nor do i think that Denver is particularly livable without a car or using mass transit for your of peak activities.

[mayorhaggar]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

So you don't live in L.A?

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

I've visited Denver in 2004, and 2007

[DocGoldstein]

Never made a strong claim about Denver's system one way or the other, that's why I only showed what the data and studies say.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by DocGoldstein

Based on public transportation investment, ridership, and safety? Definitely.

When you have to play catch up of course you're going to be investing a lot.

Anyone whose actually experienced public transit in places like the Bay Area, LA, NYC, Chicago, Dc, etc.. knows what a joke LA is compared to them and is a tier or two below.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by mayorhaggar

My sentiments exactly.

[sav858]

I spent a whole week riding LA's trains for at least 10 hours a day at my old job when my company did a fare evasion study. The Red/Purple Line is somewhat nice but the Blue Line is a joke. You want to talk crap about the people and how dirty BART is, try spending some time on the blue line. And seeing as we did a fare evasion study it was quite the spectacle with the people you have to deal with on LA's system. We went around with the LA's sheriffs as well as the MTA's security of course. The people on MTA are much trashier overall than what you see on BART or even Muni. Every day at least several people were arrested right in front of me no matter what line it was. Fights, drugs, vandalism, etc..quite rampant on the Green and Blue lines.