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Old 03-09-2013, 10:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,060 posts, read 106,870,458 times
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Why has the Berkeley City Council been so soft on crime the last 20 years, that businesses have had to close, due to drug dealing on their doorstep? Why has the business core of downtown Shattuck Avenue fallen apart? Why is there not more support for business--has the City Council been unaware all these years that business taxes pay their salaries? And who keeps electing these soft-on-crime, oblivious-to-business types to city government? I'm sure I'm missing something, so by all means, fill me in.



[Posted by: Citizens For Greater Diversity Of Topics On The SF/Oakland Forum]

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 03-09-2013 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:27 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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I don't think there is much more going on in downtown Berkeley than there is in most other cities. The only empty location I can think of off the top of my head is where the Tully's was next to the Chase on Center and Shattuck. They're closing up a lot of locations though. if anything, Berkeley has become more tolerant of new businesses as it is even allowing chains to move in. There are plans for even more chains in that area. I was just there earlier today, ate some Hawaiian BBQ there yesterday. That area seems to be going through a rebirth and has been lately. The only way the business area of Shattuck will fall apart is if the gigantic University one black up the street falls apart.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,060 posts, read 106,870,458 times
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That would be good news, if a business revival is at hand. The last time I was downtown (a few yrs. ago, granted), several storefronts on Shattuck were boarded up. And Telegraph Ave. had gone downhill, ever since Cody's Books pulled out, after protesting loudly in an editorial in the Chron about drug dealing being allowed outside their door. I guess chains aren't exactly good news, but it's better than empty locations.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:48 PM
 
6,802 posts, read 6,674,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That would be good news, if a business revival is at hand. The last time I was downtown (a few yrs. ago, granted), several storefronts on Shattuck were boarded up. And Telegraph Ave. had gone downhill, ever since Cody's Books pulled out, after protesting loudly in an editorial in the Chron about drug dealing being allowed outside their door. I guess chains aren't exactly good news, but it's better than empty locations.
Well, y'all have been fighting about homeless sitting on the sidewalks.

Berkeley moves towards a consensus homeless plan | Berkeleyside

Apparently 1,000 new apartments are also being planned, so it's not all bad news for downtown. They are allowing that development.

1,000 new apartments planned for downtown Berkeley | Berkeleyside

[Posted by: Citizens For Greater Diversity Of Topics On The SF/Oakland Forum: Fresno Chapter]
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:04 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,254,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
That would be good news, if a business revival is at hand. The last time I was downtown (a few yrs. ago, granted), several storefronts on Shattuck were boarded up. And Telegraph Ave. had gone downhill, ever since Cody's Books pulled out, after protesting loudly in an editorial in the Chron about drug dealing being allowed outside their door. I guess chains aren't exactly good news, but it's better than empty locations.
When's the last time you were in Berkeley? Cody's closed up long time ago. I forget when but it's been a long time. There haven't been any boarded up businesses since the early 90's that I can recall. Berkeley is prime real estate and no business space is vacant for very long. Berkeley Bowl used to be a Safeway and the Walgreens across the street from it used to be a store called Pay-n-Save. Those were vacant the longest. The only place along Telegraph that's boarded up to the best of my knowledge is that former grocery store on Derby across from Willard Middle School. I believe there may be something wrong with that building as well but I'm not sure.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,060 posts, read 106,870,458 times
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Thanks for the link on the homeless, I was wondering how that issue was coming along. It sounds like they need an ordnance against aggressive panhandling, like the one Seattle had for awhile.

People are complaining about homeless harassing them on "commercial sidewalks". But where would they go if they're banned from commercial sidewalks? Residential areas? They already hide out at the University, sometimes assaulting students. Here's one of the comments from the link:

I'm afraid that one of the primary issues that is being ignored in this approach is the aggressive panhandling and domination of public space by people who have no intention of seeking out assistance - career panhandlers, and in many cases people who are only passing through. I want to emphasize that I am fully in support of reaching out to the homeless and making assistance available to them. But unless the city finds a way to curb the aggressive behavior of the few who make the entire homeless population look bad, the sense of edginess downtown and in the surrounding areas will remain.

Gentoo: I mentioned Cody's because they spelled out the problem very well in their editorial before they closed, after begging the City Council to do something about drug activity.

It's not the general homeless population who create a sense of unease, at least not for me personally. It's when I can't go to an ATM, a laundromat, or walk in and out of a store without being approached by someone who insults me under their breath when I refuse to give them money. How do you deal with them without an aggressive response? Is that even possible?

Panhandlers in Berkeley seem to feel a sense of entitlement I don't see in other cities because they know they can intimidate people out of money and no one is doing anything to stop it - not the city, not the police (and yes, preferably not the police because they should have better things to do). In the meantime I'm afraid a lot of harmless people who really need help and would welcome it are being blamed for the behavior of an aggressive few. I think if we were to look into seriously dealing with that crowd, then we might get somewhere.


Gentoo: I mentioned Cody's because they spelled out the problem very clearly in their editorial before they closed, after begging the City Council to do something about drug activity.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,254,765 times
Reputation: 9002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Thanks for the link on the homeless, I was wondering how that issue was coming along. It sounds like they need an ordnance against aggressive panhandling, like the one Seattle had for awhile.

People are complaining about homeless harassing them on "commercial sidewalks". But where would they go if they're banned from commercial sidewalks? Residential areas? They already hide out at the University, sometimes assaulting students. Here's one of the comments from the link:

I'm afraid that one of the primary issues that is being ignored in this approach is the aggressive panhandling and domination of public space by people who have no intention of seeking out assistance - career panhandlers, and in many cases people who are only passing through. I want to emphasize that I am fully in support of reaching out to the homeless and making assistance available to them. But unless the city finds a way to curb the aggressive behavior of the few who make the entire homeless population look bad, the sense of edginess downtown and in the surrounding areas will remain.

It's not the general homeless population who create a sense of unease, at least not for me personally. It's when I can't go to an ATM, a laundromat, or walk in and out of a store without being approached by someone who insults me under their breath when I refuse to give them money. How do you deal with them without an aggressive response? Is that even possible?

Panhandlers in Berkeley seem to feel a sense of entitlement I don't see in other cities because they know they can intimidate people out of money and no one is doing anything to stop it - not the city, not the police (and yes, preferably not the police because they should have better things to do). In the meantime I'm afraid a lot of harmless people who really need help and would welcome it are being blamed for the behavior of an aggressive few. I think if we were to look into seriously dealing with that crowd, then we might get somewhere.
Ok, your entire post reads right out of the 1980's. This is exactly what was being said then. They used to camp in that park across from Berkeley High and City Hall. The city of Berkeley has perhaps the best homeless programs around. I say better than San Francisco's because it occupies them. Willard Middle School has free showers for the homeless. Also, many churches around Berkeley offer free meals. There are also shelters that are always open, one is on center street. At the skate park in West Berkeley, homeless with cars are "allowed" to park and sleep there. Berkeley still has a homeless problem as every large (over 100,000 people) city does. I think you are blowing it way out of proportion though.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:13 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,254,765 times
Reputation: 9002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Thanks for the link on the homeless, I was wondering how that issue was coming along. It sounds like they need an ordnance against aggressive panhandling, like the one Seattle had for awhile.

People are complaining about homeless harassing them on "commercial sidewalks". But where would they go if they're banned from commercial sidewalks? Residential areas? They already hide out at the University, sometimes assaulting students. Here's one of the comments from the link:

I'm afraid that one of the primary issues that is being ignored in this approach is the aggressive panhandling and domination of public space by people who have no intention of seeking out assistance - career panhandlers, and in many cases people who are only passing through. I want to emphasize that I am fully in support of reaching out to the homeless and making assistance available to them. But unless the city finds a way to curb the aggressive behavior of the few who make the entire homeless population look bad, the sense of edginess downtown and in the surrounding areas will remain.

Gentoo: I mentioned Cody's because they spelled out the problem very well in their editorial before they closed, after begging the City Council to do something about drug activity.

It's not the general homeless population who create a sense of unease, at least not for me personally. It's when I can't go to an ATM, a laundromat, or walk in and out of a store without being approached by someone who insults me under their breath when I refuse to give them money. How do you deal with them without an aggressive response? Is that even possible?

Panhandlers in Berkeley seem to feel a sense of entitlement I don't see in other cities because they know they can intimidate people out of money and no one is doing anything to stop it - not the city, not the police (and yes, preferably not the police because they should have better things to do). In the meantime I'm afraid a lot of harmless people who really need help and would welcome it are being blamed for the behavior of an aggressive few. I think if we were to look into seriously dealing with that crowd, then we might get somewhere.


Gentoo: I mentioned Cody's because they spelled out the problem very clearly in their editorial before they closed, after begging the City Council to do something about drug activity.
My point is, you're about 15 or 20 years late on this issue.
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:25 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,060 posts, read 106,870,458 times
Reputation: 115814
Maybe on the business part of the issue, but not the crime part of the issue. The aggressive panhandling problem fits in with the general picture of the City Council's bizarre reluctance to address some of the concerns that affect business and the public. If people can't patronize businesses without feeling threatened by panhandlers, that's going to have a negative affect on businesses.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:27 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,581 posts, read 27,254,765 times
Reputation: 9002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Maybe on the business part of the issue, but not the crime part of the issue. The aggressive panhandling problem fits in with the general picture of the City Council's bizarre reluctance to address some of the concerns that affect business and the public. If people can't patronize businesses without feeling threatened by panhandlers, that's going to have a negative affect on businesses.
Ruth, I'm in Berkeley almost every day and grew up there and have quite a bit of knowledge of the city. What's your history with it? I need to know if it's even worth discussing this with you.
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