Income needed to live in SanFran? (Los Angeles, San Francisco: appointed, fit in, real estate)

[GirlFromHouston]

I'm flying out to SF tomorrow for an interview with a large company. I know they're going to ask me my salary expectations and I'm having a hard time determining what would be the equivalent of my current salary with the much higher cost of living.

I currently live in Houston, one of the lowest costs of living in the country, although I do live "in the loop" which is prime central real estate here. I have a 1 bedroom, 1000sf loft downtown and a 5 series BMW ($700 payment). No dependents. We also pay no state income tax in Texas.

What kind of salary would I need to live in a nice property about the same size as I have now in a good central location in SF and still be able to pay my other bills - food, gas, car, insurance, etc.? I'm wanting to keep my current lifestyle basically. Not looking to live with 3 roomates like I'm in college again or go on a ramen noodle diet.

I know similar questions have been asked a million times over, but I've been browsing the forums and seen people talking of couples who make a combined income of $175k buying $1 million homes. HOW is that possible? In Houston, with that income you'd be looking at a home price of max $500k, especially if you had kids. These numbers just don't add up to me. Does everyone in Cali live paycheck to paycheck?

TIA for the input.

[andyadhi01]

Vast majority of people in CA live dirt poor lifestyle compared to TX because of very high cost of living. There is basically no middle class here compared to rest of US. There is a small minority of wealthy people who live the good life here... The rest have living standard comparable to Mexico.

Unless peofessionally necessary I would strongly advise you against moving from Houston. Houston is a great city and just as diverse and multicultural as any city in CA.

Besides you can actually enjoy the beach in Houston by driving a short distance to Valveston where its warm and sunny most of the year. Over here you will freeze to death if you get in the water and the weather on the beach is almost always horrible.

[CFL_City]

Originally Posted by andyadhi01

Vast majority of people in CA live dirt poor lifestyle compared to TX because of very high cost of living. There is basically no middle class here compared to rest of US. There is a small minority of wealthy people who live the good life here... The rest have living standard comparable to Mexico.

Unless peofessionally necessary I would strongly advise you against moving from Houston. Houston is a great city and just as diverse and multicultural as any city in CA.

Besides you can actually enjoy the beach in Houston by driving a short distance to Valveston where its warm and sunny most of the year. Over here you will freeze to death if you get in the water and the weather on the beach is almost always horrible.

I literally laughed out loud. Go read my post in the middle of the "Affordable to live in $50K per year?" thread. You can live an awesome lifestyle without having a lavish salary. And Houston ain't San Francisco, or even Los Angeles...there's a reason so many people want to move here...

Anyway, I'm having trouble answering your question, OP, because the lifestyle you have and want to keep is different from the lifestyle that most people live here. Most people around here wouldn't keep that kind of car payment...in fact, many people choose not to keep their car at all, since public transportation is pretty good and the entire Bay Area is very bikeable. In SF you'll probably pay $2000 for a reasonably-centrally-located 1 br apartment. But the cost of housing is probably the only cost that's significantly higher than anywhere else. You'll never need AC, and groceries are cheap since we grow them all here. Parking your car may be an additional expense.

If you're looking to buy, I can't really advise you.

[andyadhi01]

Originally Posted by CFL_City

I literally laughed out loud. Go read my post in the middle of the "Affordable to live in $50K per year?" thread. You can live an awesome lifestyle without having a lavish salary. And Houston ain't San Francisco, or even Los Angeles...there's a reason so many people want to move here...

Anyway, I'm having trouble answering your question, OP, because the lifestyle you have and want to keep is different from the lifestyle that most people live here. Most people around here wouldn't keep that kind of car payment...in fact, many people choose not to keep their car at all, since public transportation is pretty good and the entire Bay Area is very bikeable. In SF you'll probably pay $2000 for a reasonably-centrally-located 1 br apartment. But the cost of housing is probably the only cost that's significantly higher than anywhere else. You'll never need AC, and groceries are cheap since we grow them all here. Parking your car may be an additional expense.

If you're looking to buy, I can't really advise you.

Sure if you want to live a dorm lifestyle with 4 roommates sharing one bathroom and eating a greasy burrito for your meals everyday then you can live in $50k. Most professionals however prefer a bit more civilized lifestyle-

You need a car to enjoy just about anything bay area has to offer. If your life revolves around walking from one filthy bar to another in Mission then yes you don't need a car.

[Larry Siegel]

Actually most people in California live quite well, although they have less interior space than almost anywhere else in the country except New York. You will have the most beautiful scenery in the world, nutritious cheap food, and perfect weather. And insane real estate prices.

Figure on $3000-$4000 for a thousand square feet. That's huge for a SF one-bedroom apartment, but you can use that number for salary negotiations.

At a 3.5% interest rate, you can buy a $1,000,000 house for $35,000 a year (about $3,100 a month) in interest, plus principal, taxes, and insurance. I sure wouldn't attempt it on a $175,000 income but a lot of people do.

[mayorhaggar]

Because it's condos (or apartments) versus houses. You wouldn't expect to find a 4 bedroom house in Manhattan would you?

Also a lot of people in SF (and Manhattan) ditch the car. Gas and car payments add up, especially for a Beemer.

[ambient]

Originally Posted by GirlFromHouston

I'm flying out to SF tomorrow for an interview with a large company. I know they're going to ask me my salary expectations and I'm having a hard time determining what would be the equivalent of my current salary with the much higher cost of living.

I currently live in Houston, one of the lowest costs of living in the country, although I do live "in the loop" which is prime central real estate here. I have a 1 bedroom, 1000sf loft downtown and a 5 series BMW ($700 payment). No dependents. We also pay no state income tax in Texas.

What kind of salary would I need to live in a nice property about the same size as I have now in a good central location in SF and still be able to pay my other bills - food, gas, car, insurance, etc.? I'm wanting to keep my current lifestyle basically. Not looking to live with 3 roomates like I'm in college again or go on a ramen noodle diet.

I know similar questions have been asked a million times over, but I've been browsing the forums and seen people talking of couples who make a combined income of $175k buying $1 million homes. HOW is that possible? In Houston, with that income you'd be looking at a home price of max $500k, especially if you had kids. These numbers just don't add up to me. Does everyone in Cali live paycheck to paycheck?

TIA for the input.

First, what you can get salary-wise really depends on your profession and industry.

But if you want to live in the city, keep in mind that rent for a single bedroom these days in a part of the city you probably want to be in is going to cost you like $2.2K a month or more - and it probably ain't gonna be no 1000sf loft.

I would say that you should at minimum be in the $80Ks assuming you want to live alone, and that's still not saying all that much. I would hope you can get more than that.

Let's say you spend $2200 on rent. And another $2500 of spending cushion on food, gas, entertainment, etc. (also savings cushion if you don't spend it all). Add that together, uplift that for let's say a 25% full effective tax rate, uplift that for let's say 10% pre-tax 401K contributions, multiply by 12, and you get to an income of about $84K. And as I say, it's not all that much in the city if you also consider emergencies that can come up, plane tickets, etc.

As for people buying $1M houses on $125K...trust me, I just bought a house in mid peninsula - that is not happening. The only way that works is if that person happens to have a huge chunk of cash, and generally those that do have much higher incomes. PITI on a ~$1M house at 4% will be around $5K a month.

[dalparadise]

I was a BMW-driving Houstonian who had lived mostly inside the Loop, too. That's like living in Walnut Creek compared to life in The City. It's nice, but it really isn't very urban in comparison.

If you love cities and outdoor living both, once you get a feel for SF, you will crave the lifestyle and seek out ways to adapt.

Your space requirements will go way down, because your life will not be about your home anymore. You will be out in the City or its environs every chance you get. My wife and I went from a 3100 sq. foot home to a 900 sq. ft. Apartment.

You will quickly find that a car, especially a nice car is more of a liability than a benefit in The City. My wife and I traded our two large cars for one Mini Cooper that we share. I much prefer taking public transportation, especially cable cars, which I find fun and relaxing. If you are the kind of BMW owner I was, you will stroke out trying to park in this city. Your car will be exposed to the elements and be scratched pretty quickly. It's also difficult to park anything bigger than a Mini just about anywhere in SF. It is nice to have a car for weekend trips to wine country or elsewhere around the Bay. I prefer to leave it parked or let my wife take it to work in the East Bay during the week.

One more thing--my total utility bill (gas and electric) has not been higher than $32 any month. We leave our windows open without screens every night to get the cool, Westerly breeze. There are no storms, no bugs, and no oppressive heat here, ever. On warm evenings, my wife automatically knows we are not cooking, we are going out, so we don't heat up the kitchen and we walk to one of about 175 restaurants within a 15 minute stroll from our apartment. We go hiking or wine tasting or to festivals on the weekends. Sometimes, we just explore the neighborhoods on our bikes and find something new every time.

If you move here, try to adapt. Really get into the lifestyle. Houston is a much better place to live the Houston way. If you expect that here, you will be disappointed. SF is a place for city life and sensory overload. It's an incredible restaurant town. It's so full of character and personality. It's best seen on foot or bike. The air and water are clean. It's both sophisticated and wild. It's mountainous and breathtaking. There are day trips worth taking in every direction. Its a baseball town and summers are like a street fair every night south of Market. people actually love it here and you can feel it in the air. It is hauntingly beautiful. It will change how you think about where you live. Life here is unlike anywhere else for those who embrace it.

If SF gets inside you, you will feel that tinge of loss every time you leave, even if its only for a week or two. When you show your ID at the airport counter at Hobby and the lady sees that you live in SF and starts gushing about her honeymoon or vacation she spent here, you will know what it's like to live in a place people dream of. Nobody goes on and on about Houston like that. It's different out here. You should come expecting to change a lot of things to become part of it. Why else would you want to be here?

Good luck

Oh, and the Ramen here is awesome, but expect $10 a bowl for the good stuff at Underground Ramen.

[bmw335xi]

You should make at least $55k per person.

[SFcatgirl]

Well I don't know if I mentioned it already. But my husband my daughter and I live on about $100,000 in San Francisco and we even have a car. We do just fine. But our housing situation is better than most. Still you don't have to make what some people would mention to live here.