The Bay Area is one of the most materialistic areas in the nation (San Francisco: fit in, condo)

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

Sorry, I should have said Chinese or Vietnamese. Is that ok?

Sure. Throw Indians in there as well, since they're all the same in your eyes.

Originally Posted by ketch89

Now, consider trying to come here from China - swimming across the pacific ocean isn't exactly an option. Only those with money and/or quite a bit of passion/drive/ingenuity end up getting here. This is why we have the stereotype that 'Asians are smart', because it's only the smart, the driven that have the ability to get here from the other side of the planet. It's a certain type of Asian that ends up here, so there's definitely a discernible culture among recent and relatively-recent Asian immigrants.

You do realize that the "Asian Model Minority" thing is a total myth right? Have you ever taught a classroom full of Asians? And I mean Asians as in: Cambodians, Thais, Vietnamese, Koreans, Japanese, Malaysians, Chinese, and so on, etc? Because I have. And I will tell you, the ones that do well in class do well because they have good study habits and usually come from wealthy families and private schools. Being "Asian" really doesn't have much to do with it at all. They aren't inherently more intelligent or hardworking than anyone else- they were simply set up better for academic success. The same exact thing happens with many of my white students- the ones from poorer backgrounds flounder, while those from middle class or higher SES standings breeze on through.

[Senno]

All I know is money is universal. And some people of all types are materialistic, and some are not. I don't think it's a cultural trait.

[HappyinCali]

So I think I m starting to get this. There can be a California culture and a Nebraska culture. But there can't be a California Asian culture. There can only be a Californian Chinese culture etc.

Is that right?

[Senno]

Well, except for the fact that I know many non-materialist Asians. Such as Buddhists... I don't find materialism to be a cultural thing at all that you can generalize to. Just an individual choice.

[HappyinCali]

Btw, we have hijacked this thread long enough. If you want to continue exposing me as a closet klansman, feel free to PM me.

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by senno

well, except for the fact that i know many non-materialist asians. Such as buddhists... i don't find materialism to be a cultural thing at all that you can generalize to. Just an individual choice.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

Sorry, I should have said Chinese or Vietnamese. Is that ok?

So I think I m starting to get this. There can be a California culture and a Nebraska culture. But there can't be a California Asian culture. There can only be a Californian Chinese culture etc.

Is that right?

No there can't be. Chinese in California and Vietnamese in California do not have a CA Asian culture. The reason for this is because they themselves come from different cultural backgrounds. Many Asians find it highly offensive to think of them in the way you have described.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by ketch89

Asians that have been here in California for several generations are of course "Americanized", but there is certainly a distinct culture among recent and relatively-recent Asian immigrants.

First, think about Mexican immigrants. They share a border with the United States, so for many years nearly anyone could eventually find a way to sneak across, even if they were dirt poor. (my grandfather came to California from Ensenada in the '50s). As a result, we have many different types of Mexicans in this country, from different regions in Mexico and of different socioeconomic tiers. I'll admit that it's much more difficult to cross today.

Now, consider trying to come here from China - swimming across the pacific ocean isn't exactly an option. Only those with money and/or quite a bit of passion/drive/ingenuity end up getting here. This is why we have the stereotype that 'Asians are smart', because it's only the smart, the driven that have the ability to get here from the other side of the planet. It's a certain type of Asian that ends up here, so there's definitely a discernible culture among recent and relatively-recent Asian immigrants.

This statement is not at all accurate. Chinese immigrants have gotten here in shipping containers and some have attempted rafts. Some years back the US Coast Guard intercepted a large raft of some sort of Chinese who were off the Baja coast. Many poor Chinese do come here, or have in the past at least. Most of the Asian underclass you see are made up of Chinese. Chinese were also here in the 1800's as they were used for the railroad, cheap labor. In many ways the socioeconomic situation for the Chinese has been much the same as for Mexicans. You can see the results of this within the ethnic enclaves of both groups. Contrast this with Vietnamese who predominantly came here as refugees. All sorts were mixed in there. Vietnamese enclaves tend to be smaller, fewer in number and have a very different atmosphere about them. And this is just those two examples, Koreans, Japanese and Laotians are distinct further.

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

No there can't be. Chinese in California and Vietnamese in California do not have a CA Asian culture. The reason for this is because they themselves come from different cultural backgrounds. Many Asians find it highly offensive to think of them in the way you have described.

Got it. So where do I draw the line? Should I say "Chinese Americans whose roots can be traced back to henan?" After all Chinese Americans from Xinjiang could be quite offended to be looped in with those softies close to the coast.

So I think you guys have shifted the debate so much, that I am confused as to what you actually claim

That there are no cultural traits? Yet we are constantly celebrating cultural diversity (which I love btw)

That materialism is not a cultural traits? So what is a cultural trait then? Religion, looks? But wait Tibetans don't look anything like Chinese from Beijing? Language? Cantonese vs. mandarin

I don't understand your point. Unless you want to claim that there are no cultural traits, every discussion about culture involves generalizations.

Do you think cultural anthropology and sociology are the studies of every single individual? How could we have learned about ancient civilizations if they didn't share common characteristics?

What do east Asian studies study? African American studies? Hispanic? Slavic? They do not study every individual. They study the culture prevalent in a region or an ethnic group.

of course not everyone fits that culture. No two people are alike. That doesn't mean that there aren't cultural norms, dogmas, traditions etc.

Me thinks the issue is that I associated a relatively negative characteristic with an ethnic group withouth a three page disclaimer. I thought ca Asians is narrow enough' but I should have said CA Asians who migrated here from Shenzhen between 1973 and 1999

[Senno]

Me thinks that I know so many Asians that aren't materialistic that I cannot agree with your generalization.

Me thinks that I don't know what you define as Asian. Will you please list all the countries that you consider to be Asian so we can consider whether materialism is indeed a cultural trait of nearly half of the population of the world?

Me thinks that judging individuals as individuals is generally the better way to go. Stay out of unfair generalizations and you won't have the problem you seem to be having.

I'm sorry you don't see your generalization you have made as unfair.

Me thinks that many Chinese in SF are practicing Buddhists and not materialists. Me knows this, for a fact.

Me knows many Asians here in Fresno that are Buddhists and not materialists. Some fine people run free medical clinics here and up and down the valley.

Fresno Medical Team

Me thinks thou dost protest to much at this point.