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Old 03-31-2013, 06:42 PM
 
Location: California
1,199 posts, read 1,075,114 times
Reputation: 2271

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senno View Post
Me thinks that I know so many Asians that aren't materialistic that I cannot agree with your generalization.

Me thinks that I don't know what you define as Asian. Will you please list all the countries that you consider to be Asian so we can consider whether materialism is indeed a cultural trait of nearly half of the population of the world?

Me thinks that judging individuals as individuals is generally the better way to go. Stay out of unfair generalizations and you won't have the problem you seem to be having.

I'm sorry you don't see your generalization you have made as unfair.
Me thinks I specifically said SOME CA Asians. Not ALL CA Asians, let alone ALL Asians

Again you didn't answer any questions I posed.

I am also waiting for a mod to lock this thread any second now

 
Old 03-31-2013, 06:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,438 posts, read 22,368,870 times
Reputation: 8625
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali View Post
Got it. So where do I draw the line? Should I say "Chinese Americans whose roots can be traced back to henan?" After all Chinese Americans from Xinjiang could be quite offended to be looped in with those softies close to the coast.

So I think you guys have shifted the debate so much, that I am confused as to what you actually claim

That there are no cultural traits? Yet we are constantly celebrating cultural diversity (which I love btw)

That materialism is not a cultural traits? So what is a cultural trait then? Religion, looks? But wait Tibetans don't look anything like Chinese from Beijing? Language? Cantonese vs. mandarin

I don't understand your point. Unless you want to claim that there are no cultural traits, every discussion about culture involves generalizations.

Do you think cultural anthropology and sociology are the studies of every single individual? How could we have learned about ancient civilizations if they didn't share common characteristics?

Me thinks the issue is that I associated a relatively negative characteristic with an ethnic group withouth a three page disclaimer. I thought ca Asians is narrow enough' but I should have said CA Asians who migrated here from Shenzhen between 1973 and 1999
You're confusing my posts with Oakland's. I never said materialism can't be a cultural trait. I am black and many in my race can be materialistic too. The problem is, that word has a negative connotation no matter how innocently you meant it. If you read my post a while ago, you would see that I said I see both sides. I too have a problem with concentrating on the exceptions to rules. But this goes back to certain words having negative connotations. Many people don't like the word "general" or it's derivatives. Somehow over the years when discussing people it's become a negative word. Pay attention ok? I'm actually agreeing with you on this part. Of course the study of culture and society is about the general impact of that culture or society. Of course there will be exceptions to the general rule but to concentrate on those exceptions basically gives the culture in question the middle finger. this is a common complaint that many minorities have. I mentioned that earlier. I know what you're trying to say, your choice of words just isn't very good.
 
Old 03-31-2013, 06:46 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 5,027,762 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali View Post
Me thinks I specifically said SOME CA Asians. Not ALL CA Asians, let alone ALL Asians

Again you didn't answer any questions I posed.

I am also waiting for a mod to lock this thread any second now
Then how do you ascribe it to a cultural trait if it's just some of them? Not so cultural is it...

I fully answered your questions. I am on the other side and think your questions astoundingly obtuse and lacking in cultural knowledge to the point of ridiculousness. YMMV.

So am I, as to the thread being locked. Probably best at this point.
 
Old 03-31-2013, 06:56 PM
 
Location: East Bay, CA
4,872 posts, read 6,292,901 times
Reputation: 4302
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali View Post
Before I get accused of anything, I will say that my wife is Asian and she agrees 100%

So, I will say that in sf proper, Asians and Indians are more materialistic than whites. Pay attention to who drives BMW and MBs. Mostly Asians. And no, that's not because they are more successful. It is because they care. In my job, finance, two asian guys below me drive BMWs and I drive a Honda. Asians in California tend to be VERY materialistic as they are always trying to outshine each other.

Since there are a lot of very successful Asians and Indians in the Bay Area, and they want to show it. Same for whites, but think about it this way: an Asian who can afford a BMW is more likely to have one than a white person, who can also afford it.

Overall, the Bay Area is quite materialistic, but less in your face. I.e. people will drive a Subaru, but will wear marmot and only shop at REI.

Some women also have very expensive jewelry and as a whole, people in th bay rea tend to wear very expensive clothes when going out.

So, in summary. Bay Area is materialistic, but less so than NYC, LA, Houston. It is also more concentrated among successful Asian and Indian yuppies
Your initial post is full of FAIL, it's really difficult to pinpoint where you went wrong.

Let me try to break it down for you:

1. Fun fact: "Indians" and "Asians" are actually from the same continent. You did mean people from India that now live in America, and not American Indians or Native Americans, right? Either way, Asia is a vast continent with a huge variety of peoples. Not a good idea to lump them all in the same category- which you totally tried to do.

2. "Always trying to outshine each other" has a pretty negative tone to it. Are you insinuating that the main reason "Asian" people buy nice things is because they are pretentious and competitive, NOT because they work hard and enjoy nice things? Don't really think you have anything to prove it...

Also, did it ever occur to you that materialism is also an AMERICAN trait? Why are you assuming it's an Asian/Indian one people brought with them? There are plenty of materialistic people in this country. Many of them are white!

3. There is absolutely no way to prove that if an 'Asian' has the money, they will buy a BMW/Benz. There also is no way to prove that all things being equal, 'Asians' are more likely than whites to do so. You completely made up this claim, likely based on nothing more than your own personal biases.

I could go on and point out more flaws, but these were the most glaring red flags that showed how limited/narrow your world view is.
 
Old 03-31-2013, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
631 posts, read 671,983 times
Reputation: 1214
Okay, can we quit with the racial/cultural argument before the topic gets locked? I actually find the subject of materialism among metro areas in the United States to be interesting.

Back on track, here's the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusHsu View Post
The Bay Area has the second highest cost of living in the nation, second to the New York City metro area. A relatively high percentage of people are in the top 5% income bracket (105K and up). Look at the gas prices, at the overpaid public sector. Look at the bidding frenzy for shacks in the city.

How materialistic is the Bay Area compared to other areas of the nation? How does this affect our daily lives? Please discuss respectfully and intelligently.
I would say that a person (with money) who spends $1 million on a condo in San Francisco is less materialistic than someone who uses that money to buy a large home with a yard in the east bay or on the peninsula. The value of the condo is the neighborhood in which it resides, with good restaurants, coffee shops and entertainment in walking distance, while the value of the house is more in the structure itself, and its storage space for more material things.

Here's an interesting article about vanity, I think it has a pretty good translation to materialism:

Top Cities for Vanity | Men's Health
 
Old 03-31-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: California
1,199 posts, read 1,075,114 times
Reputation: 2271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senno View Post
Then how do you ascribe it to a cultural trait if it's just some of them? Not so cultural is it...

I fully answered your questions. I am on the other side and think your questions astoundingly obtuse and lacking in cultural knowledge to the point of ridiculousness. YMMV.

So am I, as to the thread being locked. Probably best at this point.
Ok, I will try to be methodical about this.

the thread asks if a geographic entity (the bay area) has a certain characteristic.

I answered to the affirmative and mentioned why I thought that was the case.

If I had said "rich people tend to be materialistic" I think no one would have cared. But oh wait, not all rich people are materialistic blah blah I am sure none of that would have happened

Would you recommend an African American Lesbian couple to move to Lynchburg, TN? Probably not. Even though, not everyone there is white and conservative

People come to this board to ask questions to see if it is worth digging more and see if SF is a place they would like to live in.

They want COMMON characteristics, so they have some BASIC idea. Of course, the devil is in the details.

So if the OP genuinely hates materialism and I answered him "my friend John is very materialistic, but my friend Juan isn't at all, while my friend Chuong is semi-materialistic" would that be helpful? Or is that a completely irrelevant answer

I am sorry, you refuse to acknowledge that such thing as cultural traits exist (note I am not saying genetic, racial etc). I am really not sure what else I can say.

Please proceed thinking I am a racist with an Asian wife, who had a Tea ceremony at the wedding. It is your value as an American

Oh snap, sorry I generalized you. Not all Americans share freedom of opinion as a value.
 
Old 03-31-2013, 07:07 PM
 
6,805 posts, read 5,027,762 times
Reputation: 1911
I haven't told you that you can't express your little opinion at all...

I just don't agree and have provided specific examples why I don't agree. It's not that hard to interpret is it?

I'm still waiting on your answers to the following questions:

1. What is an Asian?
2. How many of them are materialistic?
3. As many people practice Buddhism, and are by definition not materialistic, how does that fit into your theory of cultural trait?
4. Saying you have an Asian wife doesn't insulate you in the least. (That's not really a question.)
5. I hate racists. That's just for clarities sake. But I haven't called you any names. Why are you so defensive?
6. Can you please explain the Hmong and how they fit into your theory?
7. How about Lao?
8. How about Cambodians?
9. How about Japanese?
10. Your theory leaves out the many Chinese that are Buddhists in SF and are not materialistic.
11. You generalization is wrong, and you spin and spin...
12. How you get that I don't think cultural traits don't exist is beyond me. All I have said is that materialism isn't a cultural trait. I'm not discussing any other types of cultural traits. Are you ESL? that might explain it.
 
Old 03-31-2013, 07:13 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 16,327,576 times
Reputation: 7582
Done. Locked.
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