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Old 03-29-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 3,999,741 times
Reputation: 624

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_cute View Post
The definition of materialism: "A tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values."

I think enjoying good food can be a spiritual value. I mean what is wrong with wanting to eat high quality food? There is nothing truly morally superior to eating the cheapest burger you can find (McDonald's) than eating a high quality burger that happens to be expensive. Unfortunately, in this country, high quality food is expensive and mainstream America still doesn't value quality food. You won't realize what a sham American food is until you have eaten in provincial France. Their food is infinitely better than American food in quality and taste, and doesn't cost a lot. The places that serve high quality filet mignon, for instance, are every day casual bistros that are opposite of the pretentious, fancy, trendy establishments that try to pretend they are high class so they can charge more. You won't know what I mean until you go there and eat for yourself. It will be a mind-opening experience and will change your perspective on food. And I am not the only one who has felt this way.

So as I see it, eating good, quality food is a spiritual value. So spending $60 on a burger to eat a good burger alone is not materialism. It would be different if that person also wanted to show off and there is some question as to whether the $60 burger is in fact better quality and worth the money.
Disagree.

 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,639 posts, read 67,246,292 times
Reputation: 21179
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
People who aren't materialistic wouldn't post about median incomes 20x times in a thread as a way to make a point. They would never do that.
Yes, it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that people of substance STILL clamor to live in a city you disparage at every turn.

So the fact that there are 10,000+ households in Oakland that earn $200,000+ destroys anything you have to say.
mod cut

Last edited by Sam I Am; 03-29-2013 at 03:00 PM..
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Salinas, CA
15,408 posts, read 6,163,693 times
Reputation: 8430
The Bay Area is generally materialistic and there used to be places that did not have it. You can even see it in Morgan Hill/Gilroy in the southernmost part of the region these days, though probably less so than Pleasanton and some of the other cities mentioned. In the "old days" of the 70's/80's those two towns were more about the simple life, but you could still be close to Bay Area amenities/Silicon Valley jobs.

If the materialistic people also show they care by voting for school bonds, coach youth sports teams (time permitting), help a local charity, and serve their jury duty, I can still respect them. Materialistic people that always vote down educational bonds and always try to get out of their jury duty obligation (I have served twice) do not rate in my book.
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:10 PM
 
Location: San Jose, CA
7,688 posts, read 29,080,878 times
Reputation: 3630
Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_cute View Post
I think most of those people actually live on the peninsula in rich suburbs like Woodside or Atherton or in Marin County. Heck, I visited downtown Los Gatos and saw parked on the main street, a Maserati and Lambourghini within 100 feet of each other- never saw two cars of that caliber parked so close to each other in SF. Not to say that there aren't luxury car owners in SF (we do have neighborhoods like Pacific Heights, Seacliff, and St Francis Wood), just that there are greater numbers of them on the peninsula. It's on the peninsula you will find the real mansions. The ones with a large acreage and secluded location. You never see them the way you do in SF (the mansions in SF are pretty visible anytime you pass through a rich neighborhood), but there are a great many of them on the peninsula, hidden out of plain view- just the way those rich folks like them.
No doubt, if you take a drive on I-280 on a nice weekend between Cupertino and San Mateo you will think you are at the Pebble Beach concours. So many fantastically expensive cars. I saw a Lexus LF-A parked at an antiques store on First Street in Los Altos last week, and Ferraris are daily sightings. But that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the absolute sea of humdrum small-motor BMW's and MB's that are absolutely nothing special to drive, and only worth the money for cachet value.
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
1,148 posts, read 2,984,227 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocGoldstein View Post
Disagree.
I think you disagree because you haven't gotten out of the American paradigm:

High quality food in the US = Expensive = American materialism

There is another way to look at food which doesn't exist in the US, and I use the French model because that is I think the best example and what I am familiar with:

High quality food in France = Affordable at all income levels = Accessible to everyone and therefore not materialistic

Unfortunately to get high quality food in the US, you tend to have to pay more for it. Or actually, it's been said that food in the US is too cheap. So everyone expects a burger to cost similar to In and Out. But the quality is significantly reduced and crap to achieve that price point. We are willing to go lower, to pay lower. It's been said that that has contributed to the health and obesity problems in the US.

As for myself, I actually tried the fancy fine dining scene in SF for a period of time and found that it was not fulfilling. I was paying a lot of money for supposedly "better food".

So I've been cooking at home a lot more and prefer a wonderful home cooked meal than dining out at a fancy $$$$ restaurant any day. But, I buy all my ingredients from farmers markets and Whole Foods. People might see me at Whole Foods and think I am materialistic if they don't understand and know me. If I am so materialistic to shop at Whole Foods, why do I actually dislike eating at expensive restaurants, even if I could afford to once a month or so?
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Lafayette, CA
2,518 posts, read 3,999,741 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_cute View Post
I think you disagree because you haven't gotten out of the American paradigm:
Nope. That's not why I disagree.
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:24 PM
 
3,229 posts, read 6,266,345 times
Reputation: 4883
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragontales View Post
It's expensive but folks want to live here for a reason. It's not about materialism, it's about quality of life. I can easily afford the Ozark mountains in Missouri but why the hell would I want to live there?
The Ozarks have an infinitely higher quality of life compared to the Bay area. Too bad they do not have a lot of employment opportunities. However if they had a lot of employment opportunities maybe they would become an overcrowded mess like the Bay area.

Compare:


Ozark Mountains - YouTube


3 OFFICERS DEAD IN OAKLAND CALIFORNIA SHOOTINGS RAW FOOTAGE - YouTube


San Francisco Drivers
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
460 posts, read 979,435 times
Reputation: 299
Areas in the Bay Area with flashy cars:
- MSJ area of Fremont
- Burlingame
- Atherton
- Woodside
- Hillsborough
- Oakland hills
- Piedmont
- Orinda

The only area more materialistic may be Orange County in this country. Los Angeles County is still very much blue collar and modest in most areas. Forget car ownership in NYC. I vacationed in Miami last year- it is quite modest in most areas.
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,573 posts, read 27,289,271 times
Reputation: 9007
Quote:
Originally Posted by mini_cute View Post
I think you disagree because you haven't gotten out of the American paradigm:

High quality food in the US = Expensive = American materialism

There is another way to look at food which doesn't exist in the US, and I use the French model because that is I think the best example and what I am familiar with:

High quality food in France = Affordable at all income levels = Accessible to everyone and therefore not materialistic

Unfortunately to get high quality food in the US, you tend to have to pay more for it. Or actually, it's been said that food in the US is too cheap. So everyone expects a burger to cost similar to In and Out. But the quality is significantly reduced and crap to achieve that price point. We are willing to go lower, to pay lower. It's been said that that has contributed to the health and obesity problems in the US.

As for myself, I actually tried the fancy fine dining scene in SF for a period of time and found that it was not fulfilling. I was paying a lot of money for supposedly "better food".

So I've been cooking at home a lot more and prefer a wonderful home cooked meal than dining out at a fancy $$$$ restaurant any day. But, I buy all my ingredients from farmers markets and Whole Foods. People might see me at Whole Foods and think I am materialistic if they don't understand and know me. If I am so materialistic to shop at Whole Foods, why do I actually dislike eating at expensive restaurants, even if I could afford to once a month or so?
As usual, very well said mini. Like most others have said, I live hear not for what I can buy, but for the lifestyle I can live. In fact on many occasions I have said that all I really need is a place to eat, sleep and shower. Nature gives me what I need otherwise and you can't really put a price on that. I am perhaps the least flashy person you would ever meet. I tend to dress way down. People look at me and think "he's poor" and most of the time that's exactly what I want them to think.
 
Old 03-29-2013, 02:32 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,965 posts, read 32,481,033 times
Reputation: 13615
Quote:
Originally Posted by capoeira View Post
The Ozarks have an infinitely higher quality of life compared to the Bay area. Too bad they do not have a lot of employment opportunities. However if they had a lot of employment opportunities maybe they would become an overcrowded mess like the Bay area.
And what about education, health care, etc..? QOL certainly can mean different things to different people but statistically the Bay Area has a FAR HIGHER quality of life than the Ozarks of all places. Having less people doesn't mean it has a higher QOL, that's ridiculous.

Arkansas ranks 50 and MO at 37 on the Human Development Index (HDI) compared to 12 for CA.

Measure of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Bay Area QOL is one of the highest in the world:
http://files.lsecities.net/files/201...n-Regions3.jpg
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