condo costs in so. s.f. or san mateo area (San Francisco: rent, appliances)
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Wow!!!!!!!!! $600k! How many square feet are we talking about? You can get a detached house at $600 a square foot. Therefore $600k would buy you a 2 bedroom house measuring 1000 living square feet. If those condo prices start in the $600s, were talking a possible $1000 a square foot assuming a 1 bedroom condo is 650 square feet for $650k.
I can see why you werent impressed. You felt you could get much more "bang" for the buck. You stand correct, those prices arent reasonable even by SF standards. You could live in prime Manhattan, NYC, NY for that kind of money!
Just curious NAH, but have you ever lived in the Bay Area? Because that's actually pretty normal for a decent condo around here... you can crunch numbers all you want, or search on realtor and so forth, but that won't give you the whole picture. Around here you pay for more than square footage - neighborhood, look/feel and age of place (older is sometimes better here!), views, desirability, convenience, amenities, safety, and more. Trust me, anyone who knows the real estate here realizes that a $600K condo will be MUCH nicer than a $600K detached home. Might sound weird to "outsiders", but that's just how things are. If someone can't afford these prices, they either rent or don't live in the greater Bay Area - period.
- I don't mean to sound rude, but you're always commenting on our costs & making us out to be morons... anyone who hasn't lived here for some period of time really isn't qualified to make these statements.
Just curious NAH, but have you ever lived in the Bay Area? Because that's actually pretty normal for a decent condo around here... you can crunch numbers all you want, or search on realtor and so forth, but that won't give you the whole picture. Around here you pay for more than square footage - neighborhood, look/feel and age of place (older is sometimes better here!), views, desirability, convenience, amenities, safety, and more. Trust me, anyone who knows the real estate here realizes that a $600K condo will be MUCH nicer than a $600K detached home. Might sound weird to "outsiders", but that's just how things are. If someone can't afford these prices, they either rent or don't live in the greater Bay Area - period.
- I don't mean to sound rude, but you're always commenting on our costs & making us out to be morons... anyone who hasn't lived here for some period of time really isn't qualified to make these statements.
I am not qualified, I am only pointing out an observation that could have been overlooked. Sometimes I am half expecting someone to point out I can get a nice house in West Palm Beach for like $150k that I overlooked! I have yet to find a nice house for under $300k but that does not mean they dont exist.
A $600k condo very well may be nicer, but you pay dearly for this. We have some nice oceanfront 2 bedroom condos right in WPB costing over half a million! For that kind of money I can get a very nice 5 bedroom house triple the square footage! Yes I dont get those oceanfront views but I get to enjoy triple the square footage, a detached house and a backyard!
Maybe those $600k condos in the bay area are oceanfront or oceanviews? That would rightfully justify the premium. Someone posted above that he was "underwhelmed" by those new condo developments starting at $600k. Sometimes the price just does not justify what you get. We have the same scinerio in my own city of WPB, ive seen 1/1 condos for $250k with nothing special about the location nor building. Some developers just overprice them thinking some people dont know any better
I have been checking SF realtor and theres lots of nice condos for $300k to $400k with an average cost of $600 a square foot. Incidentally, detached houses have the same average cost per square feet. This leds me to think the condos may be nicer interiorally or have something special like high rise or great views. I am sending you a PM to show that some prices are more reasonable than that $1.1m house I showed ya
I am not qualified, I am only pointing out an observation that could have been overlooked. Sometimes I am half expecting someone to point out I can get a nice house in West Palm Beach for like $150k that I overlooked! I have yet to find a nice house for under $300k but that does not mean they dont exist.
There are two sayings I've quoted before on the forums: "You get what you pay for" and "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!" Trust me, I've lived here for most of my life, and if something seems like a fantastic deal.... well, you can be 98% sure there's a reason. Could be shabby construction, a dangerous neighborhood, outdated interior, tiny lot, bad management, etc. I appreciate your good intentions, but as someone who doesn't live here, your "observations" could be dangerous... I'd hate to see you convince someone to buy a house in Hunter's Point, just because it looks like a good deal.
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I have been checking SF realtor and theres lots of nice condos for $300k to $400k with an average cost of $600 a square foot. Incidentally, detached houses have the same average cost per square feet. This leds me to think the condos may be nicer interiorally or have something special like high rise or great views. I am sending you a PM to show that some prices are more reasonable than that $1.1m house I showed ya
Sure, you can find a condo for less than $400K in SF... but nice? Probably not! I started to read your PM, and the first listing I viewed was in the Bayview district. Might look nice to someone who doesn't live around here, but we're talking gang territory... if you don't mind daily drive-by shootings, than I guess that would be a great house for the price - LOL. I live in a bad neighborhood right now, and it's no joke! I'm only renting, though, and don't have any children yet (plus a German Shepherd who protects me ). I'd never buy a house in this kind of neighborhood, especially if I had a family... some people unfortunately don't have a choice, but for those who do, this would not be a smart place to live.
There are two sayings I've quoted before on the forums: "You get what you pay for" and "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!" Trust me, I've lived here for most of my life, and if something seems like a fantastic deal.... well, you can be 98% sure there's a reason. Could be shabby construction, a dangerous neighborhood, outdated interior, tiny lot, bad management, etc. I appreciate your good intentions, but as someone who doesn't live here, your "observations" could be dangerous... I'd hate to see you convince someone to buy a house in Hunter's Point, just because it looks like a good deal.
And what about the other 2%? My dad's friend bought a nice big house in a good neighboor for $300k, he was so excited he was telling my dad how he got such a good deal. The story was the seller was about to get forclosed and owed the bank about $300k. So he had no choice but liqudate the house for $300k and pay the bank back. If he gets forclosed this will ruin his credit and he will never get a mortgage again. By selling, he preserved his credit but took almost $100k loss on the house! There are exceptions like this case. I have nothing to gain by telling someone to buy a certain house, I only observe advertizements and listings and some deals seem alllllllllmost too good to be true
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Sure, you can find a condo for less than $400K in SF... but nice? Probably not! I started to read your PM, and the first listing I viewed was in the Bayview district. Might look nice to someone who doesn't live around here, but we're talking gang territory... if you don't mind daily drive-by shootings, than I guess that would be a great house for the price - LOL. I live in a bad neighborhood right now, and it's no joke! I'm only renting, though, and don't have any children yet (plus a German Shepherd who protects me ). I'd never buy a house in this kind of neighborhood, especially if I had a family... some people unfortunately don't have a choice, but for those who do, this would not be a smart place to live.
Ive heard that any condo over $300k should be nice, even if its on the small side square feet wise. Is crime in the Bayview really that bad that shootings are a daily occurance? Cant the cops do something about those gangs? Whats your rent for what size apartment and how much would that cost to own? Isnt it true SF has a price average of $600 a square foot while Manhattan $900 average?
LOL... I only say 98%, because there's always a margin of error. Maaaaaybe there's a nice house out there for a cheap price, but I guarantee (with 100% accuracy) you'll be competing with lots of people for it... thus driving up the final closing price. My sister & her husband were out-bid on 3 or 4 homes, before finally getting one at slightly above listing price. This was only two years ago, so we're not talking about ancient history.
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Ive heard that any condo over $300k should be nice, even if its on the small side square feet wise.
Where did you hear that?? Might be true in some states, but not around here! I've seen some MAJOR dumps for much more than $300K, and even as high as $600K. As I mentioned, I live in a horrible neighborhood, and a 2-bedroom condo just sold on my street for around $500K. It might be a nice looking place (and seems quite spacious), but this is definitely not a safe place to live!
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Is crime in the Bayview really that bad that shootings are a daily occurance? Cant the cops do something about those gangs?
Well, I don't know if they actually occur daily, but it's certainly not uncommon. Bayview/Hunter's Point is the worst part of San Francisco, and is well-known for it's gang & drug activity... if the cops could "do something" about it, I'm sure they would have by now. Why don't the cops do something about Compton and Detroit? Unfortunately crime isn't that easy to control, and as long as criminals exist, they have to live somewhere. But you won't catch me buying a house next-door to them! They are trying to build up the economy in Bayview, but they tried that in my town too - with only minimally positive results.
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Whats your rent for what size apartment and how much would that cost to own? Isnt it true SF has a price average of $600 a square foot while Manhattan $900 average?
I'm not sure, but I'd guess my place is around 700sf... it's two stories, with a small living room, galley-style kitchen (tiny!), 2 average bedrooms, and 1.5 bathrooms. I pay $900/mo., but most others in this complex pay $1100-1250 - my sister negotiated a great deal for me, since they had a few empty units at the time. I don't know how much it would cost to buy, but I'd guess around $400K?? It's a pretty nice looking apartment, with plenty of space for me & my pets... but the neighborhood is quite scary (luckily we're gated), there are lots of maintenance issues, and not enough space for more than 2 people. Plus, I wouldn't raise children in this town!
About the SF & NY averages, I honestly have no idea... the number for us sounds about right, but I don't know about NY. If you're only talking about "Manhattan", that's very possible, but not if it includes other boroughs. If you compare housing costs of the greater Bay Area with all of NYC, we're probably a bit higher... there are no "affordable" suburbs here, unless you go into the bad neighborhoods. NYC, on the other hand, has some better options within the metro area.
LOL... I only say 98%, because there's always a margin of error. Maaaaaybe there's a nice house out there for a cheap price, but I guarantee (with 100% accuracy) you'll be competing with lots of people for it... thus driving up the final closing price. My sister & her husband were out-bid on 3 or 4 homes, before finally getting one at slightly above listing price. This was only two years ago, so we're not talking about ancient history.
Is there still a house bubble in SF? The bubble is history in south Florida and most other locations. Theres houses selling for as much as 50% below asking price. It was even in the newspaper that one developer sold the last 3 houses for about $250k. Someone bought the exact same model for $505k last year and is now upset his house is worth pratically half as much! One flipper took advantage and bought a similar model for $275k and flipped it days later for $425k. Retail "market" value was a little over $500k! For this reason and other reasons, I have the feeling we will see a huge drop in house prices in Florida. Thats expected, hurricane insurance just went up 16% with no end in sight!
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Where did you hear that?? Might be true in some states, but not around here! I've seen some MAJOR dumps for much more than $300K, and even as high as $600K. As I mentioned, I live in a horrible neighborhood, and a 2-bedroom condo just sold on my street for around $500K. It might be a nice looking place (and seems quite spacious), but this is definitely not a safe place to live!
I have a friend who paid $300k for a SF condo and hes happy. He told me if you have $300k you can get a small but nice condo in SF. Maybe he doesnt know its in a bad area or doesnt believe so.
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I'm not sure, but I'd guess my place is around 700sf... it's two stories, with a small living room, galley-style kitchen (tiny!), 2 average bedrooms, and 1.5 bathrooms. I pay $900/mo., but most others in this complex pay $1100-1250 - my sister negotiated a great deal for me, since they had a few empty units at the time. I don't know how much it would cost to buy, but I'd guess around $400K?? It's a pretty nice looking apartment, with plenty of space for me & my pets... but the neighborhood is quite scary (luckily we're gated), there are lots of maintenance issues, and not enough space for more than 2 people. Plus, I wouldn't raise children in this town!
Your right, its no place to raise a family but great for a single person. Wow that is a very good price for rent! That would be a 1:450 rent vs. buy ratio, something almost unheard of! Here in Florida the rent ratios are generally between 1:150 and 1:250 with large detached houses and high rises making up the bulk of the better rent ratios. The small 1/1 condos have the worst rent vs. buy ratio. I can see for this reason why its common to rent a 2 or 3 bedroomer and have roomate(s) to split the rent, very common for 2/2 condos to be shared by 2 roomates. Do you have a roomate? Could you live with your sister and split the rent? May I ask what job you have and salary(PM me it if you dont want to share here) You are getting one of the best deals in rent ive seen and in a gated neighboorhood too! I cant get a deal like this even in south Florida! Would cost me easily $1200 a month if not more! And SF is a much better location and the jobs pay much better too!
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About the SF & NY averages, I honestly have no idea... the number for us sounds about right, but I don't know about NY. If you're only talking about "Manhattan", that's very possible, but not if it includes other boroughs. If you compare housing costs of the greater Bay Area with all of NYC, we're probably a bit higher... there are no "affordable" suburbs here, unless you go into the bad neighborhoods. NYC, on the other hand, has some better options within the metro area.
Yea Manhattan is the most expensive borrough/city in USA. The others appear to be comparable in price to SF with Manhattan being 50% higher price($600/foot and $900/foot) I guess most people in SF will just have to rent. If they can really get a 2 bedroom condo for like $1200 in a bad area or say $2000(is that correct) in a good area and split it with a roomate and stay there for a few years while saving up to relocate, buy a house in cash and start a family, thatll work. They lose the money renting but the jobs pay so much higher which more than makes up for renting and SF is a fun location anyway! visited SF once!
Do you have a roomate? Could you live with your sister and split the rent? May I ask what job you have and salary(PM me it if you dont want to share here) You are getting one of the best deals in rent ive seen and in a gated neighboorhood too! I cant get a deal like this even in south Florida! Would cost me easily $1200 a month if not more! And SF is a much better location and the jobs pay much better too!
I answered the beginning of your post in PM, so I'll spare you repeating all of that. To answer your other questions, no I don't have a roommate (hate 'em!), and I can't live with my sister - she's married and trying to start a family, plus we'd drive each other crazy! I love her dearly, but we're too different to live together. I'm actually unemployed right now, since I literally just finished graduate school... I was working as a literacy teacher through the last school year, but took this semester off to concentrate on my thesis. Finished that last month, which is why I've been very bored & spending too much time on here - LOL. I do make money with private tutoring, pet-sitting & music gigs, and my parents are supplementing the rest for now. I'm actively looking for a job, though!! Had 4 interviews this month, and leads on a number of other positions (as a reference or youth librarian)... pay is decent, usually between 45-60K, but not exactly millions.
Yes the rent is a good deal, but as I said it's a really bad neighborhood... btw, the neighborhood isn't gated, just my apartment complex. And the gate's actually been broken since November! It only closes about half the time, and our landlords don't seem to be capable of fixing it. There have been 3 murders in the last year just on this BLOCK, and you can't safely walk around here after dark. I'm also not in the city of San Francisco, but actually closer to San Jose (about 15 miles north)... still part of the greater Bay Area, though. This is the trade-off for such cheap rent, which was the choice when I moved from a more expensive & smaller apt. in Belmont - a much nicer town. There I was paying $1050 for around 500sf, and in Pacifica I paid $1250 for an even smaller place!
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Yea Manhattan is the most expensive borrough/city in USA. The others appear to be comparable in price to SF with Manhattan being 50% higher price($600/foot and $900/foot) I guess most people in SF will just have to rent. If they can really get a 2 bedroom condo for like $1200 in a bad area or say $2000(is that correct) in a good area and split it with a roomate and stay there for a few years while saving up to relocate, buy a house in cash and start a family, thatll work. They lose the money renting but the jobs pay so much higher which more than makes up for renting and SF is a fun location anyway! visited SF once!
Yup, San Francisco is a terrific town!! I've traveled all over the world & US, and still think it's one of the greatest cities that exists. It has the combination of scenery, night-life, people/diversity, opportunities, weather, and so on. And I guess that's why it's so darned expensive! We probably do have a much higher percentage of renters, and most locals just understand that's how it goes. I do plan to buy something in the near future, but not sure exactly where yet (mostly depends on the job)... if I have to stretch my budget I will, because I fully agree with your points about buying vs. renting. I haven't been stable enough up to this point, but hopefully will be in the next year or so!!
NAH, I thought you might enjoy this website - [mod cut - real estate listings] (I'll send it to you privately if they delete it!)
I can't vouch for it's accuracy, but it's pretty darned hilarious - and true, as far as I know! Oh, and they have a page of listings from my neighborhood... LOL.
Last edited by enlightenme; 12-23-2006 at 11:01 AM..
Reason: real estate listings
$900 rent in the greater bay area and jobs pay about $50k a year. If you were to relocate, youd have to check what salaries the jobs pay elsewhere. If they pay only half as much, that wont be enough to afford a house or even rent! If you can get like $40k a year elsewhere that has affordable housing below $100k then your set!
Thanks for the website. My god what kind of garbage dump is that? Ill PM you to show you! Crazy, one of them is $399k for 480 feet, that comes out to $831 a foot for a dump that makes trailor mobile homes look good!
$900 rent in the greater bay area and jobs pay about $50k a year. If you were to relocate, youd have to check what salaries the jobs pay elsewhere. If they pay only half as much, that wont be enough to afford a house or even rent! If you can get like $40k a year elsewhere that has affordable housing below $100k then your set!
Well, that's just the average for my profession... if you work in IT or other tech/business jobs, it's typically closer to $75-85K. I could make that much in my field, but not until I move up in ranks a bit (we have a specific ranking system for public libraries). Other states are fairly equivalent for librarians, usually ranging from $32-45K, and obviously the costs are lower. But I'm fine with living here for now, especially since my sister is starting a family soon... I want to be around for my niece/nephew, as I didn't get to grow up near my relatives. It's also a great place to live, other than the traffic & road-rage - which actually bothers me more than the cost-of-living!
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Thanks for the website. My god what kind of garbage dump is that? Ill PM you to show you! Crazy, one of them is $399k for 480 feet, that comes out to $831 a foot for a dump that makes trailor mobile homes look good!
I know, isn't that crazy?? Obviously those are the extreme examples, but we do see plenty of dumps in high price ranges... that's why I said that condos are often the better deal, since you're likely to find something nicer for the same price (as a detached home). My friend bought a beautiful condo in Santa Clara for about $399,000 in 2002 - it's worth around $500,000 now, I think. But the interior is perfect, since it was literally brand new at the time of purchase... has top-of-the-line appliances, marble counters, nice linoleum/tile, etc. It's also a pretty safe neighborhood, and a big complex with lots of amenities. But of course that's Santa Clara, and not San Francisco.
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I have yet to find a nice house for under $300k but that does not mean they dont exist.
Trust me, I've lived here for most of my life, and if something seems like a fantastic deal.... well, you can be 98% sure there's a reason. Could be shabby construction, a dangerous neighborhood, outdated interior, tiny lot, bad management, etc. I appreciate your good intentions, but as someone who doesn't live here, your "observations" could be dangerous... I'd hate to see you convince someone to buy a house in Hunter's Point, just because it looks like a good deal. 
). I'd never buy a house in this kind of neighborhood, especially if I had a family... some people unfortunately don't have a choice, but for those who do, this would not be a smart place to live.
Might be true in some states, but not around here! I've seen some MAJOR dumps for much more than $300K, and even as high as $600K. As I mentioned, I live in a horrible neighborhood, and a 2-bedroom condo just sold on my street for around $500K. It might be a nice looking place (and seems quite spacious), but this is definitely not a safe place to live!
It has the combination of scenery, night-life, people/diversity, opportunities, weather, and so on. And I guess that's why it's so darned expensive! We probably do have a much higher percentage of renters, and most locals just understand that's how it goes. I do plan to buy something in the near future, but not sure exactly where yet (mostly depends on the job)... if I have to stretch my budget I will, because I fully agree with your points about buying vs. renting. I haven't been stable enough up to this point, but hopefully will be in the next year or so!!
