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Old 05-09-2013, 04:11 PM
 
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Ruth, the "root causes" are so numerous that the current middle-aged homeless will die of old age before the current root causes are all addressed.

And how are we going to address the fact that NV is sending CA its mentally ill? Every person, who lives in NV, who takes a bus or a train will have to have a permanent address and take a mental health test before they can buy a ticket?

ABQ addressed the root causes and it took 5 YEARS before the first homeless person was housed. In the meantime, 40-50 homeless people in ABQ die, in winter, as the direct result of being on the streets. And, btw, none of the root causes have been resolved.

Last edited by Fran66; 05-09-2013 at 04:31 PM.. Reason: wrong word
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
604 posts, read 1,100,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04kL4nD View Post
I also agree with Ruth, which is why I said:



This bill isn't going to 'fix' anything. In fact, it will probably make things worse!
I disagree. The public health benefits figure to outweigh any potential negatives.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,904 posts, read 70,720,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
Ruth, the "root causes" are so numerous that the current middle-aged homeless will die of old age before the current root causes are all addressed.

And how are we going to address the fact that NV is sending CA its mentally ill? Every person, who lives in NV, who takes a bus or a train will have to have a permanent address and take a mental health test before they can buy a ticket?

ABQ addressed the root causes and it took 5 YEARS before the first homeless person was housed. In the meantime, 40-50 homeless people in ABQ die, in winter, as the direct result of being on the streets. And, btw, none of the root causes have been resolved.
The vet admin could issue a call for those suffering from PTSD, evaluate them, and treat them. Treatment is cheap and effective. Last I heard a few years ago, the Vet hospital in Santa Fe was putting together some special programs for that. They were thinking outside the box, and were going to sign up Native healers, acupuncturists, trauma specialists, anything that gave results. I don't know what happened to that effort, though; I haven't heard.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The vet admin could issue a call for those suffering from PTSD, evaluate them, and treat them. Treatment is cheap and effective. Last I heard a few years ago, the Vet hospital in Santa Fe was putting together some special programs for that. They were thinking outside the box, and were going to sign up Native healers, acupuncturists, trauma specialists, anything that gave results. I don't know what happened to that effort, though; I haven't heard.
Well, yes, the VA could. The problem is that since the beginning of the Iraq War, it hasn't. Trying to get even basic medical care for even acute mental health problems takes months. There's not enough money and there's not enough medical personnel.

I think that ABQ has the only VA hospital in NM. Santa Fe has a clinic.

I would think that what happens to all the VA's plans is that there just isn't enough money allocated to treat the veterans properly.

And THAT is the story of The US -- not enough money for anything -- unless you're one of the 1%.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
And I am telling you, from two decades of personal experience, most STREET homeless can't work. They are physically ill and/or mentally ill.

A big problem is: we think everyone should have to work for their living because, after all, we have to work for our living. That's a very erroneous belief. We have many disabled, of all ages, living in government subsidized apartments meaning that our tax dollars support them. I don't hear anyone saying that they have to work. (And, yes, we have a lot of disabled who are faking it, but that is not at issue here.)

We just don't want smelly old street people around. They remind us that we have to work, and they make us feel guilty because we have so much (in comparison).

And, yes, their begging can be a big pain. I do understand that. And not only that -- they may very well take whatever money we give them and buy drugs, cigs and/or alcohol. But, again, that's not our concern. Our concern is that they are homeless.

Look, when I first arrived in a new city not all that long ago, I was homeless for the first week. I knew that in one week I wouldn't be homeless. And when I ate at a nearby shelter, I thought: Wow, this is great. The homeless eat very well." And they did -- no doubt about it. But then -- in the aftn -- I suddenly wanted a peach. And a pack of cigarettes. But I didn't have any money. And that's one thing I never understood about the homeless in the 2 decades I volunteered: they have few, if any, choices. And it's humiliating. If I hadn't been so relatively well off and if I hadn't of known that my homeless was going to end in 7 days -- I would have been begging too.
Yep, so we should just throw money at them and fund their drug addiction! Great advice! You are so noble saying others should give their hard earned money to some drug addict with mental problems. How about you get off your lazy butt and do something about it instead of forcing others to do the hard work for you.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Where the Wild Things Are
604 posts, read 1,100,878 times
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You might of missed the part where she said she's done it for 20 years or so.

Wouldn't hiring them to work still be funding their addiction potentially though? Or which ones do you want to hire and which ones do you want to leave to die if I may ask.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:49 PM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by echilibru View Post
You might of missed the part where she said she's done it for 20 years or so.

Wouldn't hiring them to work still be funding their addiction potentially though? Or which ones do you want to hire and which ones do you want to leave to die if I may ask.
If they WORK for money, than THEY are funding their own addictions.

If you GIVE money, than YOU are funding their addictions.

So you think there is no difference whether you give me $1,000 vs me working for you until I save up $1,000?

Were you never taught that if you work for something, you tend to take care of it better?

Not all homeless people are drug addicts, some fell through the cracks and truly want to better themselves. Giving them money isn't going to solve anything for them. Giving them an opportunity to work could save them.

This should be common sense, no wonder San Francisco has the worst homeless population in the US if most people think like you.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:53 PM
 
1,975 posts, read 2,728,461 times
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Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Yep, so we should just throw money at them and fund their drug addiction! Great advice! You are so noble saying others should give their hard earned money to some drug addict with mental problems. How about you get off your lazy butt and do something about it instead of forcing others to do the hard work for you.
I did. For 20 years. While I worked 40- to 60-hour weeks, for a salary and my pension.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:55 PM
 
1,975 posts, read 2,728,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
If they WORK for money, than THEY are funding their own addictions.

If you GIVE money, than YOU are funding their addictions.

So you think there is no difference whether you give me $1,000 vs me working for you until I save up $1,000?

Were you never taught that if you work for something, you tend to take care of it better?

Not all homeless people are drug addicts, some fell through the cracks and truly want to better themselves. Giving them money isn't going to solve anything for them. Giving them an opportunity to work could save them.

This should be common sense, no wonder San Francisco has the worst homeless population in the US if most people think like you.
Most people don't think like me, which is why The US -- "The Greatest Country on Earth" -- has such an outrageously high percentage of homeless people.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:58 PM
 
Location: US
17,937 posts, read 17,866,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fran66 View Post
Most people don't think like me, which is why The US -- "The Greatest Country on Earth" -- has such an outrageously high percentage of homeless people.
So you think giving homeless an opportunity to work is a bad thing and they should just be given everything?

Work gives a person a sense or purpose, a sense of accomplishment, and a sense of worthiness. It gives them something to do, so they are less likely to abuse alcohol or drugs, one of the main reasons people become homeless. It allows them to earn money and potentially save enough to get off the streets and turn their lives around.
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