Your thoughts about this proposed California bill? (San Jose: apartment, tax)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Well, remember, you DID call me a genius before ... so it just stands to reason.

You know, some people really do have right answers. I realize you would just hate to have it be me.

Much like reading comprehension I suppose detecting sarcasm isn't your thing either.

I'm sure some people do but it sure as hell ain't you. Like I already said, whatever you need to tell yourself to get you through the day have at it.

Originally Posted by nullgeo

You don't huh? Still haven't bothered to read the links I provided earlier have you? Forget the "rights" angle. Hell, forget the compassionate responsibility of society angle. Let's just take it pure and simple self interest: homelessness is dangerous on many levels not only for the homeless people -- but for society to allow. Public health and crime ring a bell?

Sure don't, not that I'm against cities choosing to provide them though but I don't think it should be required.

Ignorance is pretty dangerous too but that doesn't stop you

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by sav858

Much like reading comprehension I suppose detecting sarcasm isn't your thing either.

I'm sure some people do but it sure as hell ain't you. Like I already said, whatever you need to tell yourself to get you through the day have at it.

Sure don't, not that I'm against cities choosing to provide them though but I don't think it should be required.

Ignorance is pretty dangerous too but that doesn't stop you

By gum, if you hadn't called me a genius I'd have thought you've been throwing personal attack after personal attack at me.

Well, no matter. Perhaps eventually you will have some real life adventures, experience, and education ... and provide some actual service to family, your country, state, and community, as I have. Hopefully that might help you understand the world we live in better than you do now.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

By gum, if you hadn't called me a genius I'd have thought you've been throwing personal attack after personal attack at me.

Well, no matter. Perhaps eventually you will have some real life adventures, experience, and education ... and provide some actual service to family, your country, state, and community, as I have. Hopefully that might help you understand the world we live in better than you do now.

Oh the irony of talking about understanding the "world we live in" when you clearly don't seem to understand the country and state we live in and how difficult it would be pay for all of these mandates. Oh but that's right you'll refer back to your simplistic "there's enough money to go around" mantra. My opinion is more rooted in the realities of the system we currently have to work with that isn't going to radically change anytime soon.

[04kL4nD]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

You are oversimplifying the problem and the population ... for both the homeless and addicts. Pretty much no one -- in their right mind (an important distinction for this conversation) -- "chooses" to be homeless or addicted. And people who fall to their weaknesses don't prefer to be that way. They just are. You aren't? You are blessed with the abilities, resources, genetics, connections, -- and, frankly, luck, to be capable of more self-determination. Consider yourself that: lucky. There isn't anything about addiction and homelessness that is "desirable".

I wouldn't call growing up in broken household lucky. And I also wouldn't call growing up surrounded by drug addicts/alcoholics lucky either. I got where I am not because of luck, but because of hard work. Intelligence and charm will only get you half there. Even people born into wealthy families manage to screw up and wind up in the gutter because they are lazy and make poor choices.

People like you, who make excuses for people by saying "oh it's not their fault that they're homeless/drunk/strung out" are a big part of the problem. Pitying these people and refusing to get real with them does them ZERO favors. It actually makes things worse! These people will never get any better so long as there is someone like you to pat them on the head and tell them everything will be fine when it's not.

Frankly, it's insulting to me, and the rest of us who have managed to pull ourselves up from messy situations, to tell us that we are just "lucky". A good friend of mine who is a quadriplegic is finishing up his college degree and applying to law school. What do you think he has to say about luck and hard work? How about my some of my brightest students who have parents in prison or have seen their friends gunned down by violence? Do you think they'd appreciate you telling them that their good grades are because they were "lucky" to have been born smart or into "lucky" circumstances?

Again, GO BACK AND RE-READ MY POST! I am against this bill because it does absolutely NOTHING to solve the deeper causes of homelessness. Quit trying to insinuate that I'm incapable of understanding the root causes of the issue, because I can guarantee I know a lot more about it than you think I do, and I've also done more to help people change their lives than you realize...

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

I wouldn't call growing up in broken household lucky. And I also wouldn't call growing up surrounded by drug addicts/alcoholics lucky either. I got where I am not because of luck, but because of hard work. Intelligence and charm will only get you half there. Even people born into wealthy families manage to screw up and wind up in the gutter because they are lazy and make poor choices.

People like you, who make excuses for people by saying "oh it's not their fault that they're homeless/drunk/strung out" are a big part of the problem. Pitying these people and refusing to get real with them does them ZERO favors. It actually makes things worse! These people will never get any better so long as there is someone like you to pat them on the head and tell them everything will be fine when it's not.

Frankly, it's insulting to me, and the rest of us who have managed to pull ourselves up from messy situations, to tell us that we are just "lucky". A good friend of mine who is a quadriplegic is finishing up his college degree and applying to law school. What do you think he has to say about luck and hard work? How about my some of my brightest students who have parents in prison or have seen their friends gunned down by violence? Do you think they'd appreciate you telling them that their good grades are because they were "lucky" to have been born smart or into "lucky" circumstances?

Again, GO BACK AND RE-READ MY POST! I am against this bill because it does absolutely NOTHING to solve the deeper causes of homelessness. Quit trying to insinuate that I'm incapable of understanding the root causes of the issue, because I can guarantee I know a lot more about it than you think I do, and I've also done more to help people change their lives than you realize...

I see. Guess I misjudged you. I thought you were brighter than this. I didn't insinuate you are incapable of understanding homelessness ... quite the contrary ... I assumed you were and have provided links to read in this thread. Sorry you grew up in a broken household ... and learned nothing about humility nor grace. But you are obviously very young. You still think you created yourself. I don't doubt you've worked hard ... but what you didn't do is create the traits you were born with ... nor the environment that shaped your traits to create a hard-working, self-reliant person. Yes, I think you are lucky to have been created with the tools you are using in life. And yep, I think your friends who are self-motivated and self-reliant are lucky too. Damn lucky.

Now, I left home at 14 and made my way for a few years and then into the military where I was disabled in war -- 100% military pension for damages sustained. Unlucky to have taken damage. Lucky to have the VA support my recovery. I have earned multiple college degrees, raised family and managed to live productively for 45 years this way since then. I am also married to a disabled woman.

I was hospitalized a couple times following disastrous damages. I knew how to walk and talk and chew my food just like everyone else. But then I had to re-learn some of those things and new skills to compensate for the damages that were permanent, including my hearing. Years of rehabilitation. Luckily Uncle Sam provided for my recovery through the VA system. Some people don't have such luck. They don't have the resources I did that got me functioning again. I earned that luck. But there are a lot of people in this world who suffer damages and setbacks and do so without resources to back them. That's what you clearly don't yet grasp.

I have been working with homeless people and veterans for about 20 years now. I don't pity myself, my wife, nor the people I work with ... and I don't pat them on their heads and tell them it will all be fine. I push them to whatever I see them being capable of handling at the time action is required. But I am experienced enough to know when people are at their limits -- and can't take anymore -- until they are shown how to take the next step.

I work with psychologists and doctors and lawyers and social workers who think I do a great job. And I have a little list of grateful friends who, in some cases, say they'd be dead if I hadn't hung in there with them. One I am thinking of as I write this because twice I counseled him while he held a gun in his lap to do himself in. At the total end of his rope. I hear from him almost everyday through emails. He is leaving transitional housing next month ... sober ... earning again ... works with small business computer systems ... no dummy ... clients love him. If I'd have pushed him wrong *BANG!* ... instead he is visiting his grand kids, working and starting a new life.

Good night. And good luck to you.

[Sam I Am]

Please, folks - homelessness as it applies to this bill and the OP's post. General problems about homelessness in America and what should or shouldn't be done will belong in another forum (P & OC). Thank you.

[crunchymama]

This week I'll take my kids to a lovely urban park for a homeschool park day. Giant redwoods, fun play equipment, but sadly, no bathrooms despite a large building with running water and electricity... Why? Because the Park Service keeps it locked up so that the homeless won't access them. I would much rather deal with a messy bathroom, out of paper, even graffiti- than no bathroom. The homeless are just as much a part of society, the "public" as I am, and should have bathroom access in public locations. Let's lock the bathrooms then arrest them for needing to **** elsewhere? Something is wrong with this paradigm. It's SO much easier to lock up your empathy and your bathroom than deal with the reality that there are people whom no one is loving or caring for in your community...

[04kL4nD]

Perhaps this would be a good time to have an important conversation about the homeless with your children?

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by 04kL4nD

Perhaps this would be a good time to have an important conversation about the homeless with your children?

There is a small park next to McDonalds in the Fillmore that has been taken over by the homeless. This is what I'm afraid could happen to many of our other parks if police aren't able to remove people that are camping or sleeping in them. If homeless are allowed to camp in Union Square, than anyone should be allowed to camp there.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

There is a small park next to McDonalds in the Fillmore that has been taken over by the homeless. This is what I'm afraid could happen to many of our other parks if police aren't able to remove people that are camping or sleeping in them. If homeless are allowed to camp in Union Square, than anyone should be allowed to camp there.

You want to camp out under bridges and in city parks? What's holding you back? Anyone can be homeless, no one's stopping you. Get in on the fun, festive lifestyle. Very chic. You'll love it.