Okay, so where exactly are these so-called "horrible areas" in Oakland? (San Francisco: houses, neighborhoods)

[ScottJP]

Like the big bad slums of Oakland people talk about - where are they? Where are the poorest neighborhoods? If I want to get mugged, shot at, or carjacked, where do I go?

I ask because I don't really see anything that bad in Oakland. It's like people talk about it like it's still 1990 or even worse, 1977.

West Oakland - Well there's quite a few new hipsters paying top dollar for some tiny houses with peeling paint - hardly the ghetto. There's a couple of blocks of San Pablo Avenue south of the intersection of Market St which don't look that great, but, I don't know, it doesn't look like a death trap. It looks like your average commercial strip in Fresno, actually.

Everything in the north and central districts looks fine. Downtown doesn't look like a slum, Uptown sure doesn't, Temescal, no way.

I've been along the International Boulevard corridor in the eastern part of the city, and again, I'm just not seeing anything remotely scary or too bad. Is that stretch of International Boulevard between 73rd and 98th considered the slums? It just looks middle class.

Also, I'd like to ask, do people who consider Oakland horrible, have they ever been to the bad parts of Philadelphia or Baltimore? I'm just wondering.

Thanks for the info.

- Scott

[ScottJP]

I'm just not seeing it or feeling it whenever I'm in Oakland. That's why I'm asking. It's like there's got to some secret, hidden, bad part of the city to justify all of this "Oakland is scary" hype. I'm guessing the eastern part of the city is probably the worst part, but I don't see these deeply troubled areas or even a lot of so-called "sketchy" looking people anywhere.

A couple of weeks ago I was on the eastern leg of the 1R and nearly everyone on just looked like your average citizen.

It's like there's this total disconnect between what people say and what my experience is.

- Scott

[Nineties Flava]

Originally Posted by ScottJP

Like the big bad slums of Oakland people talk about - where are they? Where are the poorest neighborhoods? If I want to get mugged, shot at, or carjacked, where do I go?

I ask because I don't really see anything that bad in Oakland. It's like people talk about it like it's still 1990 or even worse, 1977.

West Oakland - Well there's quite a few new hipsters paying top dollar for some tiny houses with peeling paint - hardly the ghetto. There's a couple of blocks of San Pablo Avenue south of the intersection of Market St which don't look that great, but, I don't know, it doesn't look like a death trap. It looks like your average commercial strip in Fresno, actually.

Everything in the north and central districts looks fine. Downtown doesn't look like a slum, Uptown sure doesn't, Temescal, no way.

I've been along the International Boulevard corridor in the eastern part of the city, and again, I'm just not seeing anything remotely scary or too bad. Is that stretch of International Boulevard between 73rd and 98th considered the slums? It just looks middle class.

Also, I'd like to ask, do people who consider Oakland horrible, have they ever been to the bad parts of Philadelphia or Baltimore? I'm just wondering.

Thanks for the info.

- Scott

I'm frankly not sure what your intentions are with this thread... If you're looking to go on some ghetto safari in Oakland or have an ego about being too tough for the West Coast then I strongly advise you not to catch yourself up in that. As someone who's one of the loudest proponents of Oakland on here, I have a very healthy respect for how it can get really real in Oakland really fast. I've commented on here before that Oakland is in very literal terms a "day and night" city; what an area looks like in the daytime is often wildly different from what it looks like once it hits 10:00 PM. As a young black man who would look right at home on an Oakland homicide report, I feel very comfortable being just about anywhere in Oakland in the daytime with a few exceptions. At night, there is a large part of the flatlands where if you choose to put yourself out there, you're exposing yourself to the very real possibility of violence of which you may or may not be the target.

If your intentions are merely to learn about some of Oakland's more troubled areas, those would be Seminary, Ghost Town and the Deep East (70th Avenue to the San Leandro border). I've been in all of the above day and night... I was on Seminary & International last night. Once again, the reality is that what you know to be true about an area in the daytime is not valid at night... I mainly know the Rainbow Center on that corner to be a valuable community center and resource for youth in the neighborhood but at night the outdoor basketball courts that aren't fully visible from the street become a great place to sell drugs. If you haven't been in the flatlands on foot at night then as the tone of your post suggests, you won't know what the "hype" is about... Believe me, the hype is very deserved.

And since you asked, I have been to Philadelphia and Baltimore. I've walked all over Philly and as far as the hood goes it really doesn't feel particularly different from Oakland though it does look a lot different. One difference I noticed is that there's a much more noticeable homeless addict population in North Philly than in East Oakland but West Oakland around San Pablo has the same addict presence. In the end the problems in both cities are largely the same... Certain issues in Philly are more noticeable on the surface than in Oakland (i.e. vacant houses and more urban decay) but beneath the surface the same forces are at work.

[Nineties Flava]

This is about as real of a window into street life in Oakland as any I've seen...

[jade408]

One difference about the "west coast" vs the "east coast" is that the bad neighborhood on the west coast look pretty nice. Nice looking homes, etc. We don't have as much of the urban decay/desolateness you see in other places. But other than having nicer houses......

[ccm123]

West Oakland (Lower Bottoms area), areas near the Coliseum. Generally speaking, the higher the elevation, the better the neighborhood in Oakland.

[Gentoo]

Listen to nineties, that's what I have to say.

I've heard many east coasters scoff at how west coast cities don't look nearly as bad as those back east. This is what can make them especially dangerous if you're unfamiliar with an area. Ghettos here are deceptive in appearance but if you blunder into one of the wrong areas, especially at night like nineties mentioned, there's a chance you will get lit up. Just about the only bad area around here that really does look bad is North Richmond.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by jade408

One difference about the "west coast" vs the "east coast" is that the bad neighborhood on the west coast look pretty nice. Nice looking homes, etc. We don't have as much of the urban decay/desolateness you see in other places. But other than having nicer houses......

Tired of you beating me to it

[bmw335xi]

http://www.city-data.com/city/Oakland-California.html

Statistics don't lie...

[ScottJP]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

I'm frankly not sure what your intentions are with this thread... If you're looking to go on some ghetto safari in Oakland or have an ego about being too tough for the West Coast then I strongly advise you not to catch yourself up in that. As someone who's one of the loudest proponents of Oakland on here, I have a very healthy respect for how it can get really real in Oakland really fast. I've commented on here before that Oakland is in very literal terms a "day and night" city; what an area looks like in the daytime is often wildly different from what it looks like once it hits 10:00 PM. As a young black man who would look right at home on an Oakland homicide report, I feel very comfortable being just about anywhere in Oakland in the daytime with a few exceptions. At night, there is a large part of the flatlands where if you choose to put yourself out there, you're exposing yourself to the very real possibility of violence of which you may or may not be the target.

If your intentions are merely to learn about some of Oakland's more troubled areas, those would be Seminary, Ghost Town and the Deep East (70th Avenue to the San Leandro border). I've been in all of the above day and night... I was on Seminary & International last night. Once again, the reality is that what you know to be true about an area in the daytime is not valid at night... I mainly know the Rainbow Center on that corner to be a valuable community center and resource for youth in the neighborhood but at night the outdoor basketball courts that aren't fully visible from the street become a great place to sell drugs. If you haven't been in the flatlands on foot at night then as the tone of your post suggests, you won't know what the "hype" is about... Believe me, the hype is very deserved.

And since you asked, I have been to Philadelphia and Baltimore. I've walked all over Philly and as far as the hood goes it really doesn't feel particularly different from Oakland though it does look a lot different. One difference I noticed is that there's a much more noticeable homeless addict population in North Philly than in East Oakland but West Oakland around San Pablo has the same addict presence. In the end the problems in both cities are largely the same... Certain issues in Philly are more noticeable on the surface than in Oakland (i.e. vacant houses and more urban decay) but beneath the surface the same forces are at work.

Hmmm... I guess maybe it could seem like I'm on a "ghetto safari" or some kind of slum voyeurism like people who take trips to Brazilian favelas. It just seems strange to me that there could so much smoke but no fire. I am definitely no tough guy looking to brag but if these areas are rough they don't look rough. I mean, a bunch of thugs start beating on me, yeah, I'm pretty damn sure like I wouldn't feel like any kind of tough guy.

I guess what I'm saying is when you're in the bad parts of Philadelphia or Baltimore, you *know* you're in the bad parts, day or night. To relate it back to the Bay Area, if you're in San Francisco on Turk between Mason and Taylor, you know you're in a troubled area. I don't get that sense about Oakland at all.

When you say West Oakland around San Pablo has an addict presence, do you mean from around 23rd to Market? It looks a bit run down but I didn't see any addicts.

Also, when you say Seminary are you referring to a district or the street? Where is "Ghost Town?"

You're right though, aside from being on the buses I haven't been on foot much at night in the areas you're talking about. I know in a lot of bad areas you could run into trouble night or day, I didn't know Oakland was mostly troubled at night but safe during the day. That could explain why I don't see or feel anything unusual. I'm not usually hanging out at 21st and Market at 2 a.m.