Clorox CEO talks about keeping the A's in Oakland (San Jose: buy, moving)

[llowllevellowll]

Originally Posted by crescent22

This is funny- Rhino in the same post says fans won't go to a bad ballpark, but that the fans in Oakland are hard-core supporters. That's two-faced double talk at its worst.

Every single baseball city has its hard-core fans; Oakland does too- just that there aren't enough of them and you can't run an MLB franchise on 10,000-15,000 of them.

I looked at this 10-yr Coliseum vs Candlestick stats- I think your statements are false. The A's winning record 2003-2012 is .520; the Giants 1990-1999 is .508 and the A's were competing against AT&T Park the last ten years during a tech recession.

"When you get the Coliseum rocking, it's louder than any other place"? That's ridiculous. Not a single MLB player would agree with you. Acoustics and the Coliseum architecture alone make that an impossibility. Fenway, Yankee Stadium, Busch, anything with a roof, Coors, Citizens are all louder than Oakland.

Blaming Wolff gets you nowhere, absolutely nowhere. You need to be blaming the city for being impotent about a new facility.

Just to clarify - you think that it's false that they are a comparable decade of results, not that it's false that Oakland outsold SF by more than 4,000 fans per game. At least we can agree on part of that and argue the rest. I'd say that Oakland won 1.2% more ballgames over 10 seasons and wonder if you think that's wholly more successful. I don't. Moreover, with the boycott of Wolff and the fact that San Francisco had Barry Bonds for half of that decade, a draw regardless of record, is still pretty noteworthy. I didn't follow Giants baseball in the 90s, but did they have any years where they were predicted to lose 100+ games like Oakland has been predicted to do so twice, including last season?

I really don't think it's double-talk to intimate that A's fans are more into baseball (or more hardcore) than Giants fans but also understand that in general, people don't like going to bad ballparks. Giants fans that generally sell out their new ballpark, had horrific attendance at Candlestick. I have absolutely no problem with the current A's attendance. Contending helps. And the A's attendance numbers have reflected the upswing in potential - despite the fact that Wolff artificially keeps attendance numbers lower by tarping seats during sold out affairs.

Regarding it being loud, if my anecdotal evidence means nothing because I'm a lowly CD poster, there are plenty of MLB players that have similar evidences. Last year during the playoffs, many Tigers players said that it was the loudest ballpark they'd been in the entire season, and some the loudest they'd heard during their careers.

The throaty effort didn’t go unnoticed by the Tigers.

Loudest crowd of the year? Anibal Sanchez was asked.

“Definitely,” said the Tigers’ starter, whose first-inning control problems exacerbated the noise.

He described it as fun, even if he could barely hear Gerald Laird when the catcher came out to the mound in the first to help calm him down.

“We knew this was going to be tough,” Laird said.

It was enough to make you wonder what might have been had the Tigers been forced to begin the series in Oakland. Every strike by a Tiger elicited a roar — and cowbells and drums and horns — from the fans, most of whom spent most of the night on their feet. A Tigers out was reason to cheer even louder.

Personally, I grew up in Cleveland, and thus, a die-hard Indians fan. My most recent Indians playoff game was during the "Bug Game" - Carmona vs Chamberlain. I was also there during the ALCS in 1997. I'm sorry. There was nothing so loud in my history of ballpark hopping as Game 4 of the ALDS last season in Oakland.

If you've never been to a big game at the Coliseum, I highly recommend it.

And I'll blame Wolff all I want. He never tried. Oakland's resurgence as a city and desire to keep the A's would be enough to make any other owner aside from that man giddy at the sheer opportunities. Wolff wants to pad his real estate holdings downtown and that's nice and all, but he's not a baseball guy. He shouldn't have bought a team he had no intention of caring for. He bought them with the sole intention of moving them.

[Natural510]

I remember by the ALCS, the Tigers players were saying what a relief it was to go to Yankee Stadium after their experience at the Coliseum. That shows what new ballparks (with their ticket prices) do to a team's crowd; it happened in the Bronx, it will happen to the Warriors in SF, and it will happen to the A's in San Jose. But I guess no good thing lasts forever.

[crescent22]

I suppose the A's have more hard core fans because there aren't as many. That isn't a good thing. In fact, it's false pride defined.

Do you think the Giants or Yankees ownership care that the environment is more sedate in the new digs? Are you so deluded to think that the same wouldn't happen if the A's moved into a phantom new Oakland stadium? The only difference is that there would be $20-30m per year less revenue to compete with than in San Jose.

[crescent22]

Only 4,000 more per game? That's probably accounted for by population growth alone - both attendances are so low that capacity is no serious ceiling.

[llowllevellowll]

As a fan, I don't care. I like small market baseball. I've been playing nerd games like Baseball Mogul or OOTP since I was 14 and running them in small market capacities. I personally think you're overrating how much you think the San Jose market would mean to an A's franchise when they still show allegiance to San Francisco. How many Oakland/East Bay fans would still support them? A decent amount, sure, maybe even the majority, but you'd see a lot of drop off. It'd still be a small market ballclub. The upside? It lines Wolff's pockets by enhancing his real estate holdings downtown. That's all he ever wanted. And he alienated a fan base to try to do it.

Sell the team, Lew.

Originally Posted by crescent22

Only 4,000 more per game? That's probably accounted for by population growth alone - both attendances are so low that capacity is no serious ceiling.

You were the one quoting attendance figures. If this doesn't matter, then neither does it matter that Oakland has the 4th-lowest in baseball. Attendances are "so low" for the bottom half of the league that capacity is no serious ceiling. So let's just say Oakland is tied for the 16th lowest attendance in baseball with the rest of small and middle-market teams. Good, so now that's out of the way... =P

[sav858]

Originally Posted by crescent22

Only 4,000 more per game? That's probably accounted for by population growth alone - both attendances are so low that capacity is no serious ceiling.

Baseball attendance is cyclical and not related to pop growth. You really try way too hard.

[crescent22]

For the whole of baseball, that might be partially true, but for two franchise periods presented when both were filling around half of capacity, supply of bodies is very relevant.

And where is the argument? You think an average of 22,000 on cheap tickets is going to convince any sane businessman to spend $200-300m of his own money to create and sell tickets twice as expensive?

[sav858]

Originally Posted by crescent22

For the whole of baseball, that might be partially true, but for two franchise periods presented when both were filling around half of capacity, supply of bodies is very relevant.

And where is the argument? You think an average of 22,000 on cheap tickets is going to convince any sane businessman to spend $200-300m of his own money to create and sell tickets twice as expensive?

No it's really not at all, neither's team attendance or anyone's for that matter is related to population growth.
Again you're trying way too hard to argue here and you just keep looking more ridiculous.

Cheap tickets? Not the cheapest in the league like you claimed, 10 other teams have lower priced tickets.

Well it convinced Giants owners to build a new stadium.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Parti Rhinoceros

It'd still be a small market ballclub.

Technically, the Giants and A's would both become small market teams and the Giants' territory would become smaller than the current A's territory.

#never_gonna_happen

[Obamadon1]

That "small market" term is kinda ridiculous when applied to the A's. They are not "small market" - they are small revenue, as long as they stay at the Coliseum. The "market" in San Jose is smaller than the "market" in the east bay.