Children's Hospital Oakland agrees to let Jahi McMath family remove girl's body (San Jose: transplants, attorneys)

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

This is a sad story. The hospital doesn't seem at all respectful of the situation. I heard one of the family members, possibly her father, say that they rudely told them "She's dead! Dead! Dead!" I do think the family is in complete denial. She is brain dead and even if she miraculously came back, she would be in a vegitative state and would never be back to her pre-surgery mobility. This was a minor surgery that shouldn't have ended the way it did. Many people get this surgery. Just like any sugery, minor or not, there is always a risk of complications. The amount of money this is costing everyday will probably be paid by the taxpayers. There is no fundraising event that can possibly cover it all. The family would be deeply in debt over this. Just let her go.

She cannot ever be in a vegetative state, a completely different condition, requiring a functioning brain. Jahi does not have any brain function at all. That has been shown with repeated testing. There is no blood flow to her brain, which means, to put it bluntly, that her brain is decaying.

If you had read through the threads here on the surgery she had, you would know she did not have "minor surgery". She had a complex combination of three procedures and a planned stay in an intensive care unit. Tonsillectomies are common. That does not mean they are "simple" or free of the risk of complications, the most "common" of which is bleeding.

[aboveordinary]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

If you had read through the threads here on the surgery she had, you would know she did not have "minor surgery". She had a complex combination of three procedures and a planned stay in an intensive care unit. Tonsillectomies are common. That does not mean they are "simple" or free of the risk of complications, the most "common" of which is bleeding.

A tonsillectomy is minor in that it is a common surgery. Many people get their tonsils removed without any complications. A major surgery in my view is something like a heart transplant with major risks.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

A tonsillectomy is minor in that it is a common surgery. Many people get their tonsils removed without any complications. A major surgery in my view is something like a heart transplant with major risks.

Common does not mean minor. No.

Minor surgery is removal of warts in the doctor's office. You do not get sent to the ICU after "minor surgery".

[Gurbie]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

She is brain dead and even if she miraculously came back, she would be in a vegitative state and would never be back to her pre-surgery mobility.

Dude, there is no "even if" scenario here, no miracle come-backs, no vegetative state, no "mobility". The child is DEAD, FFS!

Sheesh...

[Gurbie]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

What a sad story.

Hospital agrees to let Jahi McMath family take girl - SFGate

The McMath family is breath-takingly ignorant, and the hospital has shown incredible patience and restraint, as this situation has descended into farce.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

A tonsillectomy is minor in that it is a common surgery. Many people get their tonsils removed without any complications. A major surgery in my view is something like a heart transplant with major risks.

It wasn't just a tonsillectomy; it involved other procedures as well. Like someone else said, a minor surgery is removal of a skin lesion or something like that. Outpatient surgery centers have minor and major operating rooms. I can guarantee you that a tonsillectomy is not done in a minor room. If this were a simple surgery, it would have been scheduled as an outpatient, not with plans to be admitted to the ICU.

And as was said before, this wasn't just a tonsillectomy. It also involved a uvulopalatopharyngoplasty and another procedure I don't remember, maybe adenoidectomy. The girl had health issues besides the fact that she was overweight.

There are risks with any surgery. Yes, many people have tonsillectomies with no complications. Others die. That's why informed consent is required before a surgery is done. The patient/family have to be informed of the risks of the procedure, and knowing those risks, they give consent for the procedure or they don't give consent for the surgery. This girl's family obviously gave consent after being informed of the risks. The risks always include death.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Unless what they wish is to second guess physicians' diagnoses, trying to vilify them and the hospital in the process. Still think this is suspiciously appearing like a gameplan being masterminded by that lawyer.

A tragedy turned into a circus.

I think the family doesn't look nearly as bad as the hospital in these series of exchanges, despite the comments by many posters in this discussion thread. This was surgery recommended by a physician to deal with sleep apnea, not sure what folks expect the family to understand about surgical procedures, but I wouldn't expect them to have much understanding at all.

Anyhow, the sentiments of the parents isn't dismissed by all medical professionals:

A significant minority in the medical profession continue to believe people with dead brains and beating hearts are still alive. Believers include some of our wisest minds -- a Harvard professor, an National Institute of Health theorist, a chief of neurology at UCLA, and the former chair of the U.S. President's Council all reject brain-based death pronouncement. They agree with Jahi's parents that death is linked to circulatory loss.

Opinion: Let parents decide if teen is dead - CNN.com

[kgbnsf]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

This is a sad story. The hospital doesn't seem at all respectful of the situation. I heard one of the family members, possibly her father, say that they rudely told them "She's dead! Dead! Dead!" I do think the family is in complete denial. She is brain dead and even if she miraculously came back, she would be in a vegitative state and would never be back to her pre-surgery mobility. This was a minor surgery that shouldn't have ended the way it did. Many people get this surgery. Just like any sugery, minor or not, there is always a risk of complications. The amount of money this is costing everyday will probably be paid by the taxpayers. There is no fundraising event that can possibly cover it all. The family would be deeply in debt over this. Just let her go.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in media reports which, due to privacy regulations, are only getting one side/view of the story. And the family is understandably emotional right now so who know what the reality is. We haven't been able to hear from the hospital to know if this was in fact a routine, low 'risk' surgery. There was one report earlier where the hospital said it wasn't a routine surgery and didn't elaborate citing privacy restrictions.

I find it hard to believe trained professionals would do this: "rudely told them "She's dead! Dead! Dead!", although anything is possible. Just not likely. And, as evidenced by what has happened to date, you want to be absolutely clear in delivering the message and not offer false hope when your years of training and expertise dictates otherwise.

Given all the animosity displayed by the family, there will most likely be a lawsuit and the family will get money, probably via a settlement to avoid larger legal costs. Their lawyer is probably banking on it for sure.

[18Montclair]

The coroner has released Jahi's body(how incredibly sad)to her mother's custody and as in every other article and news story I've read or seen on tv, their lawyer is saying the most outlandish things he can think of to stir controversy.

Brain dead Jahi McMath is released from California hospital - CNN.com

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

I think the family doesn't look nearly as bad as the hospital in these series of exchanges, despite the comments by many posters in this discussion thread. This was surgery recommended by a physician to deal with sleep apnea, not sure what folks expect the family to understand about surgical procedures, but I wouldn't expect them to have much understanding at all.

Anyhow, the sentiments of the parents isn't dismissed by all medical professionals:

A significant minority in the medical profession continue to believe people with dead brains and beating hearts are still alive. Believers include some of our wisest minds -- a Harvard professor, an National Institute of Health theorist, a chief of neurology at UCLA, and the former chair of the U.S. President's Council all reject brain-based death pronouncement. They agree with Jahi's parents that death is linked to circulatory loss.

Opinion: Let parents decide if teen is dead - CNN.com

However, the hospital is not subject to the opinions of a minority view but rather actual state law which in California explicitely declares that when a person is brain dead, they are legally dead.

If the hospital allowed them to perform medical procedures on a dead person, that would be unethical, illegal and immoral.

And you will recall that the ranking doctor from Stanford, one of the most venerable institutions in the world, was brought in as an outside, unbiased expert, and he sided with the hospital's opinion that she is dead.

The more I learn about this, the more I question the wisdom of the judge(s) whose decisions are prolonging this tragedy and ensuing drama.