Best SF/Bay Area neighborhood for couple with dog & cats? (San Francisco: for sale, real estate)

[Dallas-young-newbie]

Hi, my husband and I looking at moving to this area in the next few months. We'd like to rent (preferably) or buy a home. We plan on staying 2 years or less and aren't looking to necessarily make money if we buy then sell (but wouldn't want to lose much).

I'm a designer age 28, he's 32 and in finance. We're flexible on the vibe of the neighborhood: preppy, artsy, etc.

We have 2 cats and a big dog (gentle, older female lab) and I know that landlords in this area are notorious about limits on pets. That's why we think we might be forced to buy instead of rent.

I also want some private outdoor space where we can enjoy the weather, grill and lounge around.

Therefore, I'm thinking we need single family, ground level.

Rent budget: $3,000 or less
Buy budget: $650,000 or less

Our needs:
- must allow big dog and cats
- commute within 35 minutes to the Tenderloin/Financial District area (any type of commute is fine)
- preferably single-family on the ground level
- sunny weather (not foggy, damp, cold areas)
- outdoor space - even a tiny courtyard, patio, etc.
- safe, kind of quiet, but not dead. Would like conveniences like groceries, eateries, etc.
- size not very important

Some of the things I've considered:
- a boathouse - any feedback on ferry commutes?
- buying a single family home in West Oakland - but is this too rough an area for walking a dog at night?
- Marina-area rental with a back patio/garden - but landlords mostly don't allow pets, right?
- Renting in any of the more family-oriented neighborhoods like Noe Valley - but there's the pet issue again

Any recommendations on areas to zone in on?

Other questions:

How much competition is there for renting or buying? Are you fighting with 10 other entities for the best offer? Does anyone offer above asking price for renting or buying?

Are Trulia, Zillow, Realtor.com reliable or do things tend to get snatched up before these sites update?

[Chuck5000]

Hi Dallas,

Right now your price points are too low - if they are set in stone, you have a lot of wants -- what everybody wants, really -- and I think it will be probably impossible to get them all re: renting anywhere close to SF (i.e. within 35 mins). The pets are a real dealbreaker for many landlords because, why bother when you can get pet-free tenants who won't cause damage or problems with other tenants and who make as much or more than you? You might find a homeowner somewhere who will rent to you, though. I'd be wary of multi-unit buildings because I think you'll strike out. I have heard some say on these forums that there are apartment complexes on the peninsula where they allow pets where you could get a 1 bedroom for 3k...maybe you could search for those, or someone will post here.

For buying, same problem re: your prices. Prices you see are listed prices, and there are usually bidding wars; you are indeed fighting with 10 or more other bidders with any desireable property near SF. Homes may go for 5% or even 20% over list price, depending. Basically, buying a home on a budget is extremely stressful unless you want to forgo hipness altogether and buy a house in a place like San Leandro or Hayward (hills) - which might be "dead" in your book. If you look on Zillow, etc, be sure to look at sale prices - what the properties sold at. One strategy you could employ would be to look at houses listing for 500-550k, and use the rest of your headroom to bid well. But at that price point near transit or SF, the pickings are probably slim, you're looking at homes with big minuses, very small, like 800 sq feet, no driveway, tiny lot, no trees, on a busy street, far from transit or stores -- or, in a very rough area.

Overall I think Oakland is a very good buy option for you, although you are at a very very competitve price point. I'd look into the southern hills (nobody calls it that), places like Maxwell Park, San Antonio, east side of Lake Merritt...most of those are not close to BART though. West Oakland could be good, it's patchy, but there is no substitute for going around and seeing these places first hand.

Just keep in mind that dual income couples with 200k+ in income are spending months and even literally years looking for the right place and finally getting a winning bid in. Sorry to give you such bad news....but I really believe that if you make enough compromises you can get something.

[Dallas-young-newbie]

Thanks Chuck, I appreciate all your info. I really like your idea of looking at sale prices, not asking prices, to get an idea. And I'm going to check out the southern hills area as you mentioned.

From other research I've done, it looks like we would need to be prepared to make a cash offer in order to be competitive in buying.

Here are a few things I found in our price range. They seem surprisingly affordable. I wonder if there is something wrong with them.

11 Argent Alley #2, San Francisco, CA For Sale | Trulia.com

1739 11th Street, Oakland, CA For Sale | Trulia.com

1040 Masonic Avenue #3, San Francisco, CA For Sale | Trulia.com

[Chuck5000]

Twin Peaks has weather that is not gonna be what you want, often fogged in, and cold. A safe but not pretty neighborhood in most parts. Masonic is a shared garden. I used to live right near there. The weather is nice, but probably not as warm as you're used to, and high in demand. Oakland place has tiny lot, i didn't check for garden. All Oakland weather is good. SF has microclimates which follow ridgelines. But I think you should not bother even looking in SF. .

I like the zillow maps. You can get a sense of where you should look for a "nicer" area just by the sale prices. BTW, I wouldn't buy real estate here - or really anywhere - if the time horizon is only 2 years. It's generally regarded as good financial advice - 7 to 10 years is considered more prudent. I'd say there is significant downside risk. But if it's your only option, consider it part of the cost of this adventure.

[ServoMiff]

Originally Posted by Chuck5000

Twin Peaks has weather that is not gonna be what you want, often fogged in, and cold. A safe but not pretty neighborhood in most parts. Masonic is a shared garden. I used to live right near there. The weather is nice, but probably not as warm as you're used to, and high in demand. Oakland place has tiny lot, i didn't check for garden. All Oakland weather is good. SF has microclimates which follow ridgelines. But I think you should not bother even looking in SF. .

I like the zillow maps. You can get a sense of where you should look for a "nicer" area just by the sale prices. BTW, I wouldn't buy real estate here - or really anywhere - if the time horizon is only 2 years. It's generally regarded as good financial advice - 7 to 10 years is considered more prudent. I'd say there is significant downside risk. But if it's your only option, consider it part of the cost of this adventure.

I concur 1000%. With a budget like the one you mentioned, it's a tremendous risk to buy property here if you're going to sell again in 2 years. You would need a cash offer and then hope/pray/whatever that the market doesn't crash - if you're swimming in money, then your budget is too low for the area, and I'm sure you could eventually find an individual landlord to rent property to you. However, I don't think SF is really going to fit your budget needs as it stands. Almost everything priced under $700k in the city has something wrong with it.

My wife and I went to a pop-up art opening inside a vacant loft condo in SoMa Saturday night. It was a gorgeous place, modern decor, and a pretty nice view of the skyline. Priced at $679k. The caveats: 1) it was near 6th st, which is the worst place in SoMa 2) It's right in a seismic liquefaction zone and 3) Despite the building and units being new in the last 5-10 years, you were limited to what was basically a coat closet for all of your clothes in the bedroom area of the loft. My wife was kinda excited about the place until we saw that (not that we're looking).

[sav858]

If you stretch your commute a little you could look into Pleasant Hill and Concord. The BART ride into Downtown SF is about 35-45 minutes depending on what stations you get on and off at. But that's just the BART ride, not door to door. You could rent a single family home or buy one too in that price range. It's also one of the sunniest and warmest parts of the Bay Area.

[Dallas-young-newbie]

Thanks everyone! I'm working on checking all this out.

[TR95]

Forget Trulia and use Redfin. As a previous poster mentioned look at sales prices. List price in many areas really doesn't mean anything. A house could sell at ask, $5k above, $50k, or over $200k over ask. It just depends. With houses as old as the one in Oakland there could be major foundation problems, termite damage, and any other repairs that may be needed.

You need to spend a few months watching active properties and seeing what they end up selling for and have a good real estate agent that can try to give you as much information as possible on the sales. It's worth bidding on a few properties but not go too high just to see what happens. And by the way, realtors here for the most part don't really want to waste time with buyers. We went through three before we found the perfect one. Not sure why the other three didn't seem to care, but we found the perfect place after 4 months, but I looked on Redfin myself for over a year.