Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In addition to the other child unfriendliness mentioned, I think you have to be a bit more realistic about any "good deals" you find in apartments from afar. If a rental price is significantly lower than surrounding rentals, you probably shouldn't take it as an example of what you're likely to actually get. For example, both of the SF places you linked seemed abnormally cheap. Either there's something wrong that you can't see, or there will be very stiff competition to rent those. If it is a legitimately good deal, trust me when I say that the homeschooling family with four children under eight will not be on the top of a landlord's pile. Good deals, when they're real, tend to go to highly desirable tenants. Having four young children makes you a highly undesirable tenant. Perhaps you could lie, but I'm not sure if there can be repercussions to lying on a rental application. Maybe someone else knows.
The only one you posted that seemed like a normal market price was the one in south Berkeley. I'm not sure if Berkeley has changed, but back when we looked the rec was to live north of Dwight due to crime. Since you mentioned safety being a priority, you may want to reconsider that one.
Something that I haven't read about yet here that affected us quite a bit for a time----the anti-kid "vibe". For some reason (my parents didn't experience it when I was a kid) but a lot of people that have moved in over the past 20 or so years can be quite nasty/rude when you show up nearly anywhere with a younger kid-- Even if you're at a lunch spot right next to a kid's museum at lunchtime! Just showing up in a restaurant with a kid, people will roll eyes and be automatically give you the "stink eye" (this is before we've even been seated/ and without any whiny/annoying child in tow). We've encountered tons of discrimination over the years---here and there, beginning with being pregnant...(few would offer a seat for you on a crowded bus, for instance). Many of the kids you run into at many of the parks are not with their parents---mostly nannies that tend to hang out with one another (depending on neighborhood). There are very few stay at home parents in the City anymore--cost is definitely a factor!
I think San Francisco is just very young and very transient, can be very judgmental and many are escaping other places where there might be a lot of pressure to conform/marry young/have kids/not turn out gay/be religious...just my opinion. It's become overly anti-family over the years, to be honest.
I don't even have a kid and I notice it too. SF is definitely a very transient place. Most come here to grow their careers - work for a startup, hope to make millions with an IPO, and then leave. All families I know here live outside the city.
I never noticed that vibe when visiting NYC, which I found very surprising.
He would definitely prefer to take the train like he does here. He hates driving in these congested cities!
He'd be fine then. The BART is quite packed in the mornings, but it's much like the Metro in DC(although not nearly as nice). He'll definitely be next to his fair share of crazy homeless people who haven't showered in 4 months dancing to purple invisible faeries. And be warned, saying things like that out loud here is not smiled upon. To the rest of the country, it's a joke. To the crazy liberals out here, it's very offensive.
Depending on where you guys end up he may have to arrive at the Bart station early to find a spot. They tend to fill up quickly.
Your husband better be making some insane money to support a family of your size. You have 4 kids that will eventually become teenagers. Prices keep going up and up on everything.
I used to live near DC and this place is insanely expensive in comparison. Traffic is far worse too, but the drivers are much more friendly and less aggressive than those crazy DC drivers.
One thing to also consider is the taxes. Wages go up, but I went from making 80k/year in DC to near 200k/year here. The money I have left over at the end of the month is surprisingly not that much different. Basically count on everything to double.
Good luck here. It's beautiful and the weather is nice, but if my family were not here, I'd be on the first flight out.
I think the anti-kid thing can be traced to parents letting their children run rampant around here, and it has become a nuisance. I think there is a bit of a mentality here that if you support discipline for kids you are an evil conservative.
I was at a restaurant last week where a guy let his 8 year old scream at the top of his lungs and crawl on the table and eat from his plate like he was a dog. God forbid he set boundaries or discipline his little precious. I didn't want to get involved in some conflict with the guy so I just left, but these experiences do taint my feeling about sitting next to someone with kids the next time. Ultimately, it ruins it for the people who have well behaved children.
Last edited by calicoastal; 12-20-2015 at 08:18 AM..
Yeah, we haven't really looked out in those places, because I kinda felt like, if we were going to do the city, we want to really experience the city. And then if we hated it, THEN we could look out in the suburbs. We've visited NYC several times, and it does seem really family-friendly: lots of families, lots of resources for kids, like parks and activities and whatnot. But yeah, if we hated living in a tiny apartment in the city, we could always go back to what we have now: big house, long commute (which I'm just really, really tired of).
I can certainly appreciate this line of thinking. I moved to CA from Manhattan, but had lived in Westchester County prior to that.
One thing that I noticed about Westchester, was that while everyone enjoyed the idea of being so close to Manhattan, and loved the fact that it's an easy commute away, a lot of people didn't actually seem to make it down there very often.
I suspect it's because many commuted there during the week, and just found it less tiring to stay in the burbs evenings and weekends.
The total immersion into city life involved by actually living in NYC is, IMHO, well worth it.
I can certainly appreciate this line of thinking. I moved to CA from Manhattan, but had lived in Westchester County prior to that.
One thing that I noticed about Westchester, was that while everyone enjoyed the idea of being so close to Manhattan, and loved the fact that it's an easy commute away, a lot of people didn't actually seem to make it down there very often.
I suspect it's because many commuted there during the week, and just found it less tiring to stay in the burbs evenings and weekends.
The total immersion into city life involved by actually living in NYC is, IMHO, well worth it.
Westchester County? Ouch, that's where the Obama HUD crusade took place and the carnage remains.
Hillary needs to take a position on what happened in Westchester County. We are all watching.
Wow, people taking some huuge stretches to list their disatisfactions with life and find ways to blame it only on the Lib-ruls. E.g., absolutely bizarre to think that liberals don't practice discipline with children. Always the liberals and government, never the free market, never private companies or bad-acting individuals who could be reined in by government action, never the incentives of the profit motive, which must never be checked in any way - because Freedom!
Because complex, multi-factored explanations can't ever be right! Can't people just keep this fact-free, pessimistic blame garbage inside political threads? Go try to win some elections in failed California. Or failed NYC. Or any other great global city on the planet, which inevitably are run by.....liberals.
Regardless, some of the above posters hit on something - SF is small, and therefore has seen relatively much change in a small amount of time (the last 20 years, in fits and starts.) In NYC, it's 8 million people, and there has always been Wall Street and big business in Manhattan. Manhattan has become more materialistic, but the outer boroughs are much closer in spirit to how they used to be.
SF is still a physically beautiful place, with awesome parks, but the hidden minuses are real, for families without tons of disposable income. If you're single, young and very high-earning, sure, it's a party.
I think the anti-kid thing can be traced to parents letting their children run rampant around here, and it has become a nuisance. I think there is a bit of a mentality here that if you support discipline for kids you are an evil conservative.
I was at a restaurant last week where a guy let his 8 year old scream at the top of his lungs and crawl on the table and eat from his plate like he was a dog. God forbid he set boundaries or discipline his little precious. I didn't want to get involved in some conflict with the guy so I just left, but these experiences do taint my feeling about sitting next to someone with kids the next time. Ultimately, it ruins it for the people who have well behaved children.
I can TOTALLY get that, but I've never been that kind of parent (quite the opposite) and I don't have that "bring your kid anywhere at any time" attitude either yet I've still encountered nasty faces and snotty attitudes just walking down the street or taking MUNI.
My parents and aunt NEVER experienced it and this was back in the 70's/80's. I don't like dealing with obnoxious, unruly kids and clueless parents either-- I see some of that entitled thing here in the 'burbs too, but the pervasive, all around rude vibe parents have to endure specifically in San Francisco is notable. A couple of bad experiences with witnessing a bad example of parenting shouldn't taint your attitude towards all parents in general for your entire 20's/30's! I assure you, Parents were not more skilled or the kids any less unruly when I was a kid. The attitude was just more accepting of kids and the city was more diverse with families that stayed for generations.
I think Jade's post was a great example if this sort of thing. This also has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with politics!!!! Sheesh, people!!
He'd be fine then. The BART is quite packed in the mornings, but it's much like the Metro in DC(although not nearly as nice). He'll definitely be next to his fair share of crazy homeless people who haven't showered in 4 months dancing to purple invisible faeries. And be warned, saying things like that out loud here is not smiled upon. To the rest of the country, it's a joke. To the crazy liberals out here, it's very offensive.
Depending on where you guys end up he may have to arrive at the Bart station early to find a spot. They tend to fill up quickly.
Your husband better be making some insane money to support a family of your size. You have 4 kids that will eventually become teenagers. Prices keep going up and up on everything.
I used to live near DC and this place is insanely expensive in comparison. Traffic is far worse too, but the drivers are much more friendly and less aggressive than those crazy DC drivers.
One thing to also consider is the taxes. Wages go up, but I went from making 80k/year in DC to near 200k/year here. The money I have left over at the end of the month is surprisingly not that much different. Basically count on everything to double.
Good luck here. It's beautiful and the weather is nice, but if my family were not here, I'd be on the first flight out.
Most people don't leave his office for the private sector for less than a 50-75% raise. We won't go for less than 50%, which puts us well over$200k.
I think the anti-kid thing can be traced to parents letting their children run rampant around here, and it has become a nuisance. I think there is a bit of a mentality here that if you support discipline for kids you are an evil conservative.
I was at a restaurant last week where a guy let his 8 year old scream at the top of his lungs and crawl on the table and eat from his plate like he was a dog. God forbid he set boundaries or discipline his little precious. I didn't want to get involved in some conflict with the guy so I just left, but these experiences do taint my feeling about sitting next to someone with kids the next time. Ultimately, it ruins it for the people who have well behaved children.
Most parents I know (and I know a lot) don't let their kids run rampant. When I see an extreme case like you described, I wonder if that child is autistic or has some other special needs. You never know why parents (or anyone else, for that matter) do what they do.And it's just super uncool to judge parents (or anyone else) based on a brief glimpse into their lives.
Last edited by slclady; 12-20-2015 at 05:50 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
