Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Of course he won't. It's not like it's all that difficult to run the numbers like you did. Of course, all you get are comments like his (you're wrong just because), insults because they can't directly retort anything you said, or people that think because they're in a certain field that they have some sort of superiority on the topic (trust me, I could get 3 Economists or Financial Analysts in a room and they wouldn't agree on anything...it means nothing). It's either that or flawed logic. Hard to have a conversation when people just dodge and deflect everything, go off on tangents, or fein ignorance (that would be you Hockey Mac...and admittedly, I would have loved to have had a conversation with you if you could have just stopped with that nonsense. I never bought it for a second. You simply didn't want to address my comment so that was the easiest way out. And that's not an "honest" way to debate).
Please show me examples of this. I thought you were done debating with me. I'd love to have this conversation about affordability, but I thought you were finished... Doesn't seem like it?
You also keep talking about the buying aspect, and that's only one portion of the conversation, especially on the lower end and in the middle where people have been pinched the most, which has lead to the biggest changes in culture as that portion of the population is no longer able to afford to live here. That's what you were sad about in your very first post, was it not?
I don't disagree with you on many aspects, as I mentioned a couple pages back.
Nah, my mind's quite clear. I just believe in that saying by Mr. Spock on Star Trek....the sane man living in an insane world, sometimes appears insane, or something like that. I'm not trying to argue with you either. Just making an observation. Cheers!
P.S. But since you brought it up, it would be a nice time to get in a shameless plug for your therapist. Everyone can use some free marketing.
Indeed.
I think a huge issue with the Bay Area is housing and it is an issue that can probably only be fixed on a regional basis (now, I know that makes me sound insane!). When Apple, Google et al build huge campuses that employ thousands, the local jurisdictions put moratoriums or out right bans on new housing. That and the resurgence of cities as a place to live for the middle class and above increased the pressure and competition. Such a base need is harder and harder to come by. Those at the top may feel more entitled b/c they can afford to overbid on housing. Anyway... this is just a small part of my personal opinion. I see what happened in SF happening now in Oakland.
Ha, no, I won't make any plugs - shameless or not. Cheers!
Please show me examples of this. I thought you were done debating with me. I'd love to have this conversation about affordability, but I thought you were finished... Doesn't seem like it?
You also keep talking about the buying aspect, and that's only one portion of the conversation, especially on the lower end and in the middle where people have been pinched the most, which has lead to the biggest changes in culture as that portion of the population is no longer able to afford to live here. That's what you were sad about in your very first post, was it not?
I don't disagree with you on many aspects, as I mentioned a couple pages back.
I've never had a problem discussing it. But you can't have an honest conversation if you just keep saying you don't understand anything or do something as disingenuous as selectively editing what people say (that's really a very dishonest tactic). In fact, you can't have a conversation at all because no matter what you say, the other person just doesn't understand. If you want to talk about it, then let's have a conversation. But we can start with a few y/n questions that I'll supply (no dissertations) so we can get some common ground here. I personally think it would be a very short conversation based on a completely different philosophy, but some commonalities
I think many of the things I'm referring to reach out into the suburbs now. It's just so different. As stated, the lack of compassion, poor etiquette, not even any common courtesy any more. I watch movies at home now because people don't know how to act in public (last couple of times I went to a theatre, people were texting during the show and one person was actually having a phone conversation). People drive like maniacs. No one can even look up and give each other a "hey, how's it going". People just seem so snooty here now. And there's also a real aggressiveness (reminds me of New York). Maybe it's just society as a whole but I don't think so. We are #1 in the nation right now in pedestrian fatalities (I think I probably saved 4-5 lives last year stopping short on people that were about to walk out into a street of oncoming traffic because they were texting....half of them told me to F-off for stopping them...imagine that).
You really think that is just happening in San Francisco?
You can now find this behavior all over this country. Ever visited FL? You will find all the negative things you mentioned and than some, minus the culture and scenery that SF has.
And why didn't your friend try and find a replacement for the roommate, there must have been advance notice this was coming? Did the roommate just take off in the middle of the night, or did your friend not be proactive and look for a replacement, I'm guessing the latter.
You really think that is just happening in San Francisco?
You can now find this behavior all over this country. Ever visited FL? You will find all the negative things you mentioned and than some, minus the culture and scenery that SF has.
And why didn't your friend try and find a replacement for the roommate, there must have been advance notice this was coming? Did the roommate just take off in the middle of the night, or did your friend not be proactive and look for a replacement, I'm guessing the latter.
It was a big fight, so the proactive part didn't come into play. Just getting a roommate doesn't always work when you had the benefit of a rent controlled apartment (and I'm pretty sure she was locked in with the names on the lease). I was more bothered by the lack of compassion, in particular in the work environment. It was basically a "so sad, too bad" kinda thing. No one even really taking the time out of their busy lives to actually see her off (you know...like let's go have drink and send you off the right way kinda thing). And these were people that, on the surface, appeared to be a little more than just acquaintances. They had gone out a variety of times for different things. But when it came to take a little time out of their busy lives, they were too busy making money, partying with others, etc. And I guess, when I looked at the amount of people it represented, it seemed to me to be a valid representation of a cross section of San Francisco that I seemed to be experiencing on an on-going basis. With that said, I'm curious as to why you would just assume it was the latter (especially since you know nothing about her)?
I've never had a problem discussing it. But you can't have an honest conversation if you just keep saying you don't understand anything or do something as disingenuous as selectively editing what people say (that's really a very dishonest tactic). In fact, you can't have a conversation at all because no matter what you say, the other person just doesn't understand. If you want to talk about it, then let's have a conversation. But we can start with a few y/n questions that I'll supply (no dissertations) so we can get some common ground here. I personally think it would be a very short conversation based on a completely different philosophy, but some commonalities
There were a few posts that you made which were not clear (such as just posting a graph thinking it proves your point when in fact it proves the opposite! That one was fresh) and I addressed those individually, but I have understood one of your main points for this entire thread. I've just simply disagreed with it, and mentioned many, many times why.
I personally think it's an agree to disagree conversation, but if you want to continue (you are the one, after all, that opted out a few pages back), then lets have a conversation about it.
Ok, I'll start: I've never started that SF was ever cheap, or even affordable, but do you agree that it is more out of whack as compared to national averages than its ever been (save for a few other times in history possibly)?
Regional affordability is a huge central theme, and the region has become more unnnaffordable over time, do you agree?
I've never said that people today are paying less of their overall portion of income to housing costs (this seems to be one of your major points), but do you agree that the type of people who are paying such significant portions of their income to housing costs are different than in past decades (by where they stand on the income bracket in SF and the state and professions they work in)?
Do you agree the buying is only one part of the housing equation, and where SF is being changed the most is happening on the rent side of things (artists for example, who would typically rent, are now no longer able to afford the rents)?
Do you agree that money/affluence is a major contributor to the changes seen in SF's culture?
I've never had a problem discussing it. But you can't have an honest conversation if you just keep saying you don't understand anything or do something as disingenuous as selectively editing what people say (that's really a very dishonest tactic). In fact, you can't have a conversation at all because no matter what you say, the other person just doesn't understand. If you want to talk about it, then let's have a conversation. But we can start with a few y/n questions that I'll supply (no dissertations) so we can get some common ground here. I personally think it would be a very short conversation based on a completely different philosophy, but some commonalities
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodyforlife99
HockeyMac, you're doing it again (not reading what I wrote).
But we can start with a few y/n questions that I'll supply (no dissertations)
If you're not willing to do that, then let's not start. Let me know.
Sure. Sorry missed the part about your supplying of questions. I'm out and was on my phone, so apologize.
Please feel free to address my questions. I think they're pertinent to what I'm trying to say in this thread.
Last edited by HockeyMac18; 01-17-2016 at 01:50 PM..
Sure. Sorry missed a part about your supplying. Please feel free to address my questions.
I'm not going to do that initially, because it's clear we need a reset. Here are my questions. Don't need any dissertations as these are simple yes/no questions. (and btw, I'm heading out in a few minutes, but we can continue on later).
Do you agree that someone with decent credit (700 Fico) taking out a mortgage loan should be able to secure a loan at roughly 3.75% today?
Do you agree that it's reasonable that a person securing a loan in 1994 (roughly 20 years ago) would be taking out a loan at approximately 7.5%?
Do you agree that using a mortgage calculator with a $280K loan at 7.5% (over a 30 year period) would come out with a monthly payment amount of $1958 (not including tax or insurance)?
Do you agree that using a mortgage calculator with a $850K loan at 3.75% (over a 30 year period) would come out with a monthly payment amount of $3890 (not including tax or insurance)?
Do you believe that $3890 is roughly double of $1958?
Do you believe home prices have roughly tripled over the last 20 years
Do you believe historically low paying careers that didn't produce enough income to purchase a home 20 years ago should be able to purchase a home today?
Do you believe historically higher paying careers that did produce enough income to purchase a home 20 years ago should be able to purchase a home today?
Of those historically higher paying careers, do you believe those annual salaries have doubled over the last 20 years?
Of those historically higher paying careers, do you believe that most of their employers offer reasonable benefits such as healthcare to their employees?
Do you believe that someone moving into a high cost of living area should have a financial plan/strategy in place?
That's it. Again, don't need any dissertations, just yes or no responses. I'll give you an opportunity to make your case later if we feel it's needed after I make my responses back to your answers.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
