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Old 02-28-2016, 02:16 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
75 posts, read 87,882 times
Reputation: 115

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A little background - while I originally wasn't born in US I've lived in Boston, MA for most of my life. Women there tend to be more conservative and family-oriented so I had a pretty good general idea on dating dynamics which included asking them on formal dates.

A coupe of years ago I moved to SF. It appears dating here is a completely different animal. Women tend to be so independent all around and busy with their own lives it made me wonder more than once why this particular girl going on any dates at all as she clearly doesn't need a man in any way. Now, before you start throwing your rotten tomatoes, I totally understand that a modern woman is not a kitchen-bound baby machine, etc. I'm all for women having a career, being relatively independent and so on. Problem is that taken to local extremes, it turns women into men and despite living in SF I'm not interested in those.

Asking women on formal dates here tends to be difficult. Some of them are very flaky (California thing, I know) and just can't understand how it is possible to agree on a place and be there at a specific time because "it's not spontaneous". Most of them can't relate to the more sarcastic East Coast humor so after a few failed attempts I stopped with that too. There is more but you get the gist. Now, I do realize that some of this is on them but some is on me as I need to adapt and rework certain angles as it would be silly to expect dating environment to be identical on two completely opposite sides of the country.

I have a few acquaintances here but nobody close and competent enough I can ask about this stuff. So can people that lived in this area long enough point me in the right direction keeping in mind I'm NOT looking for a one night stand? What are the general rules of dating SF women? Are there any specific strategies that work well? Any *constructive* help is appreciated.
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
583 posts, read 610,923 times
Reputation: 1107
The way you frame and think about dating ("formal dates") seems to be the problem. A casual suggestion of coffee/a drink/a juice is the much more common way of first getting to know someone here than a "formal date" where you go to a nice dinner. A nice dinner is a third date activity, IMO (first being coffee, second being lunch in the park or something active).
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:18 PM
 
9,623 posts, read 4,813,926 times
Reputation: 6330
You know I live in Boston for 3 years, I wouldn't describe my ex-roommates, lots of them and not just one, as conservative and family oriented. I must be with the wrong crowd.
I found the So Cal people much more laid back. But the people in Boston start coupling too much too soon is my opinion. Maybe people in the Bay Area are not in a hurry to date, maybe too focus on their careers.
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Bay Area
3,882 posts, read 7,491,365 times
Reputation: 4303
I have a GORGEOUS friend that is a woman in her mid/late 20's...career oriented. She dates, but says the men she meets (usually via work situations) just want to get in her pants/ lunge at her unexpectedly wanting to kiss while not wanting to get to know her/find out who she is at all.

So obviously there's a major disconnect between your experiences and someone like her who is also having issues. Knowing what she's told me, my advice would be to try to get to know women very slowly---perhaps the "formal" date route is too much pressure for a woman that is independent and wants a man to be truly interested in her as a person?

Maybe coffee, grab a quick lunch--something more casual and less intimidating like hanging out more in a group situation after work? I think it might put women on the spot if it's an actual one on one date..it's too obvious.

As for the sarcastic thing--could it possibly be viewed as by a woman as a negative/downer personality type? Just a thought. I'm a sarcastic person too but there's always some people don't "get that" sort of thing and take it all the wrong way or too seriously. I don't think you should try to be different either way. Just be yourself and the ones that get you, will, and the ones that don't weren't meant to be anyway. Hey, I married someone with the same sense of humor so there are women that think like you.

I dated a man from the Boston area for several years--we were quite serious...and he thought people here were not easy to get to know or very friendly. I'm not sure why that is, but keep in mind that MOST of the people pouring into the City are not native to San Francisco or even the Bay Area. They come here for their careers/$$. Good luck!
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:52 PM
 
Location: TOVCCA
8,280 posts, read 10,577,037 times
Reputation: 11909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchromesh View Post
I'm all for women having a career, being relatively independent and so on. Problem is that taken to local extremes, it turns women into men
No it doesn't. Your sexism is showing, and maybe women see it
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:58 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 5,315,939 times
Reputation: 1843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchromesh View Post
A little background - while I originally wasn't born in US I've lived in Boston, MA for most of my life. Women there tend to be more conservative and family-oriented so I had a pretty good general idea on dating dynamics which included asking them on formal dates.

A coupe of years ago I moved to SF. It appears dating here is a completely different animal. Women tend to be so independent all around and busy with their own lives it made me wonder more than once why this particular girl going on any dates at all as she clearly doesn't need a man in any way. Now, before you start throwing your rotten tomatoes, I totally understand that a modern woman is not a kitchen-bound baby machine, etc. I'm all for women having a career, being relatively independent and so on. Problem is that taken to local extremes, it turns women into men and despite living in SF I'm not interested in those.

Asking women on formal dates here tends to be difficult. Some of them are very flaky (California thing, I know) and just can't understand how it is possible to agree on a place and be there at a specific time because "it's not spontaneous". Most of them can't relate to the more sarcastic East Coast humor so after a few failed attempts I stopped with that too. There is more but you get the gist. Now, I do realize that some of this is on them but some is on me as I need to adapt and rework certain angles as it would be silly to expect dating environment to be identical on two completely opposite sides of the country.

I have a few acquaintances here but nobody close and competent enough I can ask about this stuff. So can people that lived in this area long enough point me in the right direction keeping in mind I'm NOT looking for a one night stand? What are the general rules of dating SF women? Are there any specific strategies that work well? Any *constructive* help is appreciated.
I am very reluctant to go on coffee dates as a guy; I wouldn't even consider them dates to begin with. They're way too casual and make it difficult to generate attraction. I reluctantly went on one last week and it reconfirmed my decision -- total waste of time.

Women seem to like them b/c they're quick and non-committal but I'd consider that a bad thing. You don't want to feel like a minor entry on a girl's calendar in between more important events. I wouldn't recommend a fancy restaurant but mid level restaurants are plentiful. Dinner only takes about an hour anyway -- if you're not even worth an hour of her time, then why bother? Even with people I only went out with once, at least dinner offered an enjoyable experience, which is far more than I can say for any coffee date I've been on, even though they were cheaper.

People say it's not that big a deal b/c it's just a first date and there is some truth to that. However, many people who go out only end up going out once so the wrong venue/setting can make it that much more challenging.
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,912 posts, read 28,260,950 times
Reputation: 26089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchromesh View Post
A little background - while I originally wasn't born in US I've lived in Boston, MA for most of my life. Women there tend to be more conservative and family-oriented so I had a pretty good general idea on dating dynamics which included asking them on formal dates.

A coupe of years ago I moved to SF. It appears dating here is a completely different animal. Women tend to be so independent all around and busy with their own lives it made me wonder more than once why this particular girl going on any dates at all as she clearly doesn't need a man in any way. Now, before you start throwing your rotten tomatoes, I totally understand that a modern woman is not a kitchen-bound baby machine, etc. I'm all for women having a career, being relatively independent and so on. Problem is that taken to local extremes, it turns women into men and despite living in SF I'm not interested in those.

Asking women on formal dates here tends to be difficult. Some of them are very flaky (California thing, I know) and just can't understand how it is possible to agree on a place and be there at a specific time because "it's not spontaneous". Most of them can't relate to the more sarcastic East Coast humor so after a few failed attempts I stopped with that too. There is more but you get the gist. Now, I do realize that some of this is on them but some is on me as I need to adapt and rework certain angles as it would be silly to expect dating environment to be identical on two completely opposite sides of the country.

I have a few acquaintances here but nobody close and competent enough I can ask about this stuff. So can people that lived in this area long enough point me in the right direction keeping in mind I'm NOT looking for a one night stand? What are the general rules of dating SF women? Are there any specific strategies that work well? Any *constructive* help is appreciated.
This is totally true. As a CA girl who is more old fashioned when it comes to dating, I miss formal dates! So sick of flaky guys, "dates" that aren't actually dates. It is so confusing!

This article is so spot on!

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainm...-anywhere-else
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,912 posts, read 28,260,950 times
Reputation: 26089
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIS123 View Post
I am very reluctant to go on coffee dates as a guy; I wouldn't even consider them dates to begin with. They're way too casual and make it difficult to generate attraction. I reluctantly went on one last week and it reconfirmed my decision -- total waste of time.

Women seem to like them b/c they're quick and non-committal but I'd consider that a bad thing. You don't want to feel like a minor entry on a girl's calendar in between more important events. I wouldn't recommend a fancy restaurant but mid level restaurants are plentiful. Dinner only takes about an hour anyway -- if you're not even worth an hour of her time, then why bother? Even with people I only went out with once, at least dinner offered an enjoyable experience, which is far more than I can say for any coffee date I've been on, even though they were cheaper.

People say it's not that big a deal b/c it's just a first date and there is some truth to that. However, many people who go out only end up going out once so the wrong venue/setting can make it that much more challenging.
I like coffee outings if I don't know you. I.e. first meeting from online. Women choose the coffee date or drinks because it is easier to make it shorter or longer as needed.

Now if I have already met you and talked to you, jumping straight to a meal is fine. I also love museums, street festivals, farmers markets, art galleries and those sorts of things in the early goings. Lots of activity to help generate conversation topics!
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:34 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
4,200 posts, read 2,185,761 times
Reputation: 8168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketch89 View Post
The way you frame and think about dating ("formal dates") seems to be the problem. A casual suggestion of coffee/a drink/a juice is the much more common way of first getting to know someone here than a "formal date" where you go to a nice dinner. A nice dinner is a third date activity, IMO (first being coffee, second being lunch in the park or something active).
Are you a guy on a budget?

Are you expecting something in return for that "nice dinner" on the 3rd date?

I think if you want a woman to know you are interested in her, a coffee won't do it. How about a nice lunch where you can have extended conversation? There are likely to be fewer distractions, and you don't look like a cheapskate.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:24 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
73,049 posts, read 64,561,861 times
Reputation: 69003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchromesh View Post
A coupe of years ago I moved to SF. It appears dating here is a completely different animal. Women tend to be so independent all around and busy with their own lives it made me wonder more than once why this particular girl going on any dates at all as she clearly doesn't need a man in any way. Now, before you start throwing your rotten tomatoes, I totally understand that a modern woman is not a kitchen-bound baby machine, etc. I'm all for women having a career, being relatively independent and so on. Problem is that taken to local extremes, it turns women into men and despite living in SF I'm not interested in those.

Asking women on formal dates here tends to be difficult. Some of them are very flaky (California thing, I know) and just can't understand how it is possible to agree on a place and be there at a specific time because "it's not spontaneous". Most of them can't relate to the more sarcastic East Coast humor so after a few failed attempts I stopped with that too. There is more but you get the gist. Now, I do realize that some of this is on them but some is on me as I need to adapt and rework certain angles as it would be silly to expect dating environment to be identical on two completely opposite sides of the country.

I have a few acquaintances here but nobody close and competent enough I can ask about this stuff. So can people that lived in this area long enough point me in the right direction keeping in mind I'm NOT looking for a one night stand? What are the general rules of dating SF women? Are there any specific strategies that work well? Any *constructive* help is appreciated.
First, flakiness is not exclusive to CA. People on the Seattle forum complain about that a lot, too, and their complaints aren't restricted to one gender. Personally, I've never known anyone in the Bay Area or Seattle who was flaky, so clearly, YMMV.

What do you mean by "it turns women into men"? Please clarify.

You're mistaken about women not needing men "in any way". Women need men for companionship, love and ultimately, sex. Women are human, and humans are social animals with a need to bond. If that's not good enough for you, then you might consider moving to a more conservative part of the country.

All that said, though, I know 20-something women in the Bay Area who would love to be asked on a date. Supposedly the skewed gender demographics in the tech field result in men being desperate for women who, we're led to believe, are in short supply, but there are a fair number of attractive and bright women in tech who are being overlooked. Go figure.

You may have better luck getting involved in local activities and organizations, so you can get to know women informally, and they can have a chance to get comfortable with you before you ask them for coffee or lunch or a museum visit, whatever. Since you're new to the area, I would think that could be very helpful to you in terms of making friends in general.
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