Are You Really Sure You Want To Move SF? (San Francisco: 2013, high crime)

[23windows]

It's not about SF proper, it's about the surrounding cities and how they interact with each other. I LOVE the bay area, but would never consider moving to SF. The East Bay and Marin are so fabulous to live in, and SF is so close that you get to enjoy the city without living in it. I could always afford to live in SF, but never wanted to. I chose the Oakland hills with beautiful views of SF, much better lifestyle. We probably visited the city once a week on average, and its a great city to visit. What makes the Bay Area special is how all of the cities tie together with different cultures, landscapes, climates, and people....

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by WizardOfRadical

Chicago is one sad place. You literally have to pretend like 60% of the city does not exist.

They have more murders than LA and NYC combined.

unquestionably Chicago is a sad place where it's sad...much of the south and west sides. my point was (and, believe me, it is more than 40% of the city) is a major, alpha city by any standard, a city that is doing quite well and booming.

that does not negate the problems in the areas you suggest. The high murder rate you describe happens in 2-3 neighborhoods, not even across the whole south and west sides. It is a tragedy. But that other Chicago, the global one, doesn't relate to it at all (it should...we are all in it together, but that is just the reality).

Look, Wizzard, downtown Chicago booms, exploding with growth, much of it high end residential, and its boundaries continue to push outward...into areas of both the South and West sides where gentrification rapidly takes place. Meanwhile, the North Side of the city is solid, very much a Boston or a San Francisco.

You see Chicago as a sad place; I see it as an incredibly great city, one of the greatest, and one that, IMHO, will have a great future. Sort of the same way I see San Francisco.

[bmw335xi]

My favorite part of the Bay Area is the Peninsula, specifically Millbrae, Burlingame, Foster City and San Mateo. I really HATE most of the East Bay. There are some nice pockets, but there are still way too many undesirables. Driving on the freeway there is night and day to 101. How many people get shot on 880 each year? lol

[WizardOfRadical]

Originally Posted by edsg25

unquestionably Chicago is a sad place where it's sad...much of the south and west sides. my point was (and, believe me, it is more than 40% of the city) is a major, alpha city by any standard, a city that is doing quite well and booming.

that does not negate the problems in the areas you suggest. The high murder rate you describe happens in 2-3 neighborhoods, not even across the whole south and west sides. It is a tragedy. But that other Chicago, the global one, doesn't relate to it at all (it should...we are all in it together, but that is just the reality).

Look, Wizzard, downtown Chicago booms, exploding with growth, much of it high end residential, and its boundaries continue to push outward...into areas of both the South and West sides where gentrification rapidly takes place. Meanwhile, the North Side of the city is solid, very much a Boston or a San Francisco.

You see Chicago as a sad place; I see it as an incredibly great city, one of the greatest, and one that, IMHO, will have a great future. Sort of the same way I see San Francisco.

Dude, Chicagoland has been passed up by the bay, and is about to be passed up by DC and Boston in the next 15 years. No one aspires to live in Chicago except people who grew up in Iowa.

[jaypee]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

My favorite part of the Bay Area is the Peninsula, specifically Millbrae, Burlingame, Foster City and San Mateo. I really HATE most of the East Bay. There are some nice pockets, but there are still way too many undesirables. Driving on the freeway there is night and day to 101. How many people get shot on 880 each year? lol

I live in San Mateo and I approve of this post.

[beb0p]

Originally Posted by edsg25

As a Chicagoan, I well know the "San Francisco meets Detroit" line. But those 2 Chicago's, San Francisco and Detroit, are two separate cities, a world apart. So those who live in the "San Francisco" are pretty much where they want to be and that "Detroit" of ours doesn't even register on the radar screen. The Loop and its expanding downtown borders going south, west, and north, plus the vast world that is the North Side is a true global city, an urban gem by any measure, a city as great as any.

Do we recognize and lament the tragedy of that other Chicago, the one that takes up much of the south and the west sides? of course. It's an utter failure, the poster child to what racism, prejudice and income inequality can create. The murders that are so famous take place largely in one or two neighborhoods, a battle ground of guns, gangs, and drugs, a deadly combination. Welcome to America.

But that "San Francisco meets Detroit" thing points out one thing to me: That "San Francisco" part, the global shining city by the lake, in many ways, is more like San Francisco than any city in America. The two share vibrant urban cores that offer endless attractions and amenities, complete as any downtown can be. Only NYC is of this class, yet its very size puts it in a different category. So eliminating New York's world of its own, a place apart (a different breed of cat), no central city in the nation comes close to what SF and Chgo have to offer in their core.

Add to this that they are both "cities of neighborhoods" and the only two cities outside the northeast corridor that feel like they could be part of that region, Chicago and San Francisco share so much in common and, in my opinion and expereince (these two being the two cities I know best and am most rooted in), I think there has always been a great mutual respect, good feelings, and genuinely liking each other between the Windy City and the City by the Bay. Biased I am, but IMHO these are the two best cities in the US.

I agree with you about Chicago being a world class city, and when I was in West Town, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, etc; I feel like I was running into the same kind of people eating the same hip overpriced food back in SF.

I also visited neighborhoods like East Garfield Park, North Lawndale and Austin; the difference between these and the aforementioned neighborhoods are like night and day.

So yes, I get the SF meets Detroit saying; I think it's very descriptive of Chicago. The thing is that, just from an outsider's observation, the two worlds are not as far apart as many locals think. I constantly see the two worlds overlap, they may ignore one another but they pass each other a lot. Not to mention, the gentrification that is taking place in part of the west and south side.

With that said, I think Chicago is a great city and at the moment, a very underrated one.
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[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

My favorite part of the Bay Area is the Peninsula, specifically Millbrae, Burlingame, Foster City and San Mateo. I really HATE most of the East Bay. There are some nice pockets, but there are still way too many undesirables. Driving on the freeway there is night and day to 101. How many people get shot on 880 each year? lol

"undesirables". This is almost coded racism.

[edsg25]

Originally Posted by beb0p

I agree with you about Chicago being a world class city, and when I was in West Town, Lincoln Park, Bucktown, etc; I feel like I was running into the same kind of people eating the same hip overpriced food back in SF.

I also visited neighborhoods like East Garfield Park, North Lawndale and Austin; the difference between these and the aforementioned neighborhoods are like night and day.

So yes, I get the SF meets Detroit saying; I think it's very descriptive of Chicago. The thing is that, just from an outsider's observation, the two worlds are not as far apart as many locals think. I constantly see the two worlds overlap, they may ignore one another but they pass each other a lot. Not to mention, the gentrification that is taking place in part of the west and south side.

With that said, I think Chicago is a great city and at the moment, a very underrated one.
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spot on observations on your part.....and thanks, beb0p.....and I'm sticking to what I've said: San Francisco and Chicago are the two best cities in the nation.

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

"undesirables". This is almost coded racism.

Oh yes, it's coded racism even though i was debating people here when i said I absolutely love Atlanta given its mostly Blacks. But yeah, all the crime and like the example I gave of people shooting at cars because they get cut off or drive to slow is racism on my part! Thank god Trump won to hopefully put an end to people like you who revert everything to racism, good grief! lol

[zitsky]

Originally Posted by edsg25

spot on observations on your part.....and thanks, beb0p.....and I'm sticking to what I've said: San Francisco and Chicago are the two best cities in the nation.

Fill this in, San Francisco and (blank) are the two best cities in the nation.