Should I move out of San Francisco or not? (San Diego: low income, 2015)
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Hi readers! I am new to this site, but not new to forums and online chats. I have VERY low expectations in regards to replies because the internet, particularly online forums, are filled with trolls, negativity, hatred, and complete idiots who turn to sites like these to be vocal, because they don't have the guts to do so in real life -not to mention the man-boys who live in their parent's houses and create this fake, dishonest online persona because in real life they are complete losers...anyway, if I just described you, please move on to the next post. However, if you are an insightful person, then please do read on....
Background: I have lived in the Bay Area going on two years now and it has been great and is getting even better. I moved here in my mid-late 20's. Sure, there are negative aspects as in any place, but the positive aspects are quite lovely
Temptation: I am considering moving to Southern California - LA area or San Diego, but likely the LA area. I have a handful of close friends there and well, its quite nice. I have also always wanted to experience living there.
Question: My question mostly relates to income versus cost of living. Yes, San Francisco is really expensive, but the pay and career opportunity is great. I have my own upscale and new apartment in a great area and I do really well - MUCH better than where I moved from, and better than anticipated.
So how would you say the GENERAL debt to income ratio would be in LA or San Diego. From what I gather, the income and career opportunity in San Diego is terrible, and although LA is decent, is doesn't measure up to San Francisco.
In Closing: I know you'll be asking "so what do you do for a living? We need to know this in order to answer your question". I do not work in tech, and I am asking on a general level, as I see all industries doing really well in San Francisco.
Additionally: Aside from income vs cost of living, what are some other major differences you see between living in San Francisco vs living in SoCal.
My friend has considered moving to San Diego and came to the conclusion that, while cheaper on paper, the salaries there don’t match. There are a lot fewer jobs and they don’t pay as well. So they have decided to stay in SF for the time being. The salaries here are obviously very high, so they are able to save money, despite the high cost of living.
In my personal view, even though I have never lived in LA, I think LA has the best bang of the buck for high income earners. It is significantly more affordable than SF. The reason why LA comes up on a lot of unaffordability indexes is because it has a very large portion of low income earners (I can’t find the stat but a very high # have only HS education), who cannot afford CA prices.
But I think that LA is better than both San Diego and San Francisco if you are a high income earner, because there are more jobs in LA than SD, but it is meaningfully cheaper than SF. However, I have definitely heard that even LA can be a pretty tough place to land a job and the size of the town shrinks considerably when you start looking for a job – very much about networking and connections.
So, bottomline, I think that you will be able to save a lot more money in LA than in SF if your salaries are comparable. After that, it becomes a question of whether you can live with traffic, which is the #1 issue in LA. You might also consider posting on the LA message board.
Hi readers! I am new to this site, but not new to forums and online chats. I have VERY low expectations in regards to replies because the internet, particularly online forums, are filled with trolls, negativity, hatred, and complete idiots who turn to sites like these to be vocal, because they don't have the guts to do so in real life -not to mention the man-boys who live in their parent's houses and create this fake, dishonest online persona because in real life they are complete losers...anyway, if I just described you, please move on to the next post. However, if you are an insightful person, then please do read on....
Nothing like getting off with a bang. A+ for social skills and schmoozing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarGuyKeagz;
Background: I have lived in the Bay Area going on two years now and it has been great and is getting even better. I moved here in my mid-late 20's. Sure, there are negative aspects as in any place, but the positive aspects are quite lovely
Temptation: I am considering moving to Southern California - LA area or San Diego, but likely the LA area. I have a handful of close friends there and well, its quite nice. I have also always wanted to experience living there.
Question: My question mostly relates to income versus cost of living. Yes, San Francisco is really expensive, but the pay and career opportunity is great. I have my own upscale and new apartment in a great area and I do really well - MUCH better than where I moved from, and better than anticipated.
OK, you just redeemed yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarGuyKeagz;
So how would you say the GENERAL debt to income ratio would be in LA or San Diego. From what I gather, the income and career opportunity in San Diego is terrible, and although LA is decent, is doesn't measure up to San Francisco.
In Closing: I know you'll be asking "so what do you do for a living? We need to know this in order to answer your question". I do not work in tech, and I am asking on a general level, as I see all industries doing really well in San Francisco.
Additionally: Aside from income vs cost of living, what are some other major differences you see between living in San Francisco vs living in SoCal.
Thanks for reading!
I'd say, don't mess with success. But why not compare salaries for jobs in your industry there, before making a decision? And check out rents. The only place in LA where you can get the cool SF weather is the beach towns, like Santa Monica, which are expensive, with a few less desirable exceptions. The salaries in LA may not measure up. Just saying--it's something to keep in mind when doing your research. The alternative would be to live in lower-rent areas, but you'd have to factor in the commute, too.
My friend has considered moving to San Diego and came to the conclusion that, while cheaper on paper, the salaries there don’t match. There are a lot fewer jobs and they don’t pay as well. So they have decided to stay in SF for the time being. The salaries here are obviously very high, so they are able to save money, despite the high cost of living.
Thank you for your great response. Makes sense. I had that exact issue where I used to live - beautiful and with nice beaches, but high cost of living and low pay with virtually no jobs. I definitely don't want to be in that situation again! Working in SF allows me to visit those areas often anyway.
In my personal view, even though I have never lived in LA, I think LA has the best bang of the buck for high income earners. It is significantly more affordable than SF. The reason why LA comes up on a lot of unaffordability indexes is because it has a very large portion of low income earners (I can’t find the stat but a very high # have only HS education), who cannot afford CA prices.
Yeah, and I like the outskirts of LA, but if I had the same job there, I don't know if I'd make as much, so even though it is less expensive, I wonder if it would balance out or if I'd have less disposable income at the end of the day.
But I think that LA is better than both San Diego and San Francisco if you are a high income earner, because there are more jobs in LA than SD, but it is meaningfully cheaper than SF. However, I have definitely heard that even LA can be a pretty tough place to land a job and the size of the town shrinks considerably when you start looking for a job – very much about networking and connections.
Also, landing a job in LA 20 miles from where you live can be a hassle to the point where you'd have to move closer. Not the case in SF thanks to public transportation and less traffic.
So, bottomline, I think that you will be able to save a lot more money in LA than in SF if your salaries are comparable. After that, it becomes a question of whether you can live with traffic, which is the #1 issue in LA. You might also consider posting on the LA message board.
Thank you for your great response. Makes sense. I had that exact issue where I used to live - beautiful area with nice beaches, but high cost of living and low pay with virtually no jobs. I definitely don't want to be in that situation again! Working in SF allows me to visit those areas often anyway.
Yeah, and I like the outskirts of LA, but if I had the same job there, I don't know if I'd make as much, so even though it is less expensive, I wonder if it would balance out or if I'd have less disposable income at the end of the day.
Also, landing a job in LA 20 miles from where you live can be a hassle to the point where you'd have to move closer. Not the case in SF thanks to public transportation and less traffic.
Thank you. I will post on the LA board too, but I'm afraid of them making LA out to be the best place ever because they're from there lol...you know how it goes...
Last edited by CarGuyKeagz; 04-26-2017 at 12:00 PM..
Nothing like getting off with a bang. A+ for social skills and schmoozing.
OK, you just redeemed yourself.
I'd say, don't mess with success. But why not compare salaries for jobs in your industry there, before making a decision? And check out rents. The only place in LA where you can get the cool SF weather is the beach towns, like Santa Monica, which are expensive, with a few less desirable exceptions. The salaries in LA may not measure up. Just saying--it's something to keep in mind when doing your research. The alternative would be to live in lower-rent areas, but you'd have to factor in the commute, too.
Thank you for your response. I agree. It's pretty awesome being in a city that thrives after me not having that for a while.
If I lived in the LA area though, it would need to be the nice areas...Santa Monica, Newport Beach, Pasadena etc. I don't quite feel done with SF yet though. There is still more that I want to experience, but I could cram it into the next 6 months before my lease expires, if I had to.
Hi readers! I am new to this site, but not new to forums and online chats. I have VERY low expectations in regards to replies because the internet, particularly online forums, are filled with trolls, negativity, hatred, and complete idiots who turn to sites like these to be vocal, because they don't have the guts to do so in real life -not to mention the man-boys who live in their parent's houses and create this fake, dishonest online persona because in real life they are complete losers...anyway, if I just described you, please move on to the next post. However, if you are an insightful person, then please do read on....
Background: I have lived in the Bay Area going on two years now and it has been great and is getting even better. I moved here in my mid-late 20's. Sure, there are negative aspects as in any place, but the positive aspects are quite lovely
Temptation: I am considering moving to Southern California - LA area or San Diego, but likely the LA area. I have a handful of close friends there and well, its quite nice. I have also always wanted to experience living there.
Question: My question mostly relates to income versus cost of living. Yes, San Francisco is really expensive, but the pay and career opportunity is great. I have my own upscale and new apartment in a great area and I do really well - MUCH better than where I moved from, and better than anticipated.
So how would you say the GENERAL debt to income ratio would be in LA or San Diego. From what I gather, the income and career opportunity in San Diego is terrible, and although LA is decent, is doesn't measure up to San Francisco.
In Closing: I know you'll be asking "so what do you do for a living? We need to know this in order to answer your question". I do not work in tech, and I am asking on a general level, as I see all industries doing really well in San Francisco.
Additionally: Aside from income vs cost of living, what are some other major differences you see between living in San Francisco vs living in SoCal.
Thanks for reading!
I grew up here in the Bay Area, moved to LA when I hit adulthood, then ended up back here in my midish/latish 20s. The best way to answer your post in two parts. Part one, why I made the move back here and why I'm still here.
I made the move for money. Not only was it a promo, in general as you note, the incomes are higher here. Mind you this was nearly 3 decades ago ... things have not changed overall in that regard. This is partly why I've stayed (the other part being other life decisions I made having nothing to do with work).
Now, here are the things I miss about LA:
1) Being in a top world class megacity - Bay Area is 2nd tier
2) Good French Dip
3) Having a real Korean Town, a real/any Thai town, etc, etc ... we just don't have quite the critical mass on the diversity front (unless you count all the regional Chinese variations)
4) Having real islands off the coast
5) Having real mountains closer than 3 - 4 hours away
6) Proximity to the vastness of the Mojave and Colorado Deserts
7) The pace - LA is not quite NYC but let's face it ... the Bay Area is pretty sleepy compared to such places
Those are some of the biggies. There are several others but I need to move on to other tasks.
As you are aware, you could live in South OC, midway between LA and San Diego, for less than it costs to live in the Bay Area. Of course, salaries are also lower, but I suspect that South OC is still more affordable.
For example, the median household income in my city, Aliso Viejo, is about $102,000. However, SFR's here seem to be selling for around $800,000 on average, but I don't know the median price: https://www.redfin.com/city/224/CA/A...ingent+pending
The downsides are pretty obvious, as this area is suburban and lacking the Bay Area's cultural amenities.
The city is "family-friendly," but the city is tossing that out in order to ensure that the single millennials who are moving here in large numbers, also keep their recreational dollars here. AV is working with a consulting firm in order to retool itself.
As someone who moved to Aliso Viejo from Manhattan, it took some getting used to, but I adjusted. It helped that AV is densely populated, something that I like.
Also, there is about a 50/50 liberal/conservative mix in this city, with no one pushing politics down anyone else's throat.
AV is tiny, just slightly smaller than the adjacent city of Laguna Beach, with a much larger population than that nice beach town. You can get to the beach in about 10-15 minutes.
Other pluses to living in AV, and this really applies to all of South OC, but I happen to live in Aliso, is that the city is very safe, pretty, hilly, clean, well-maintained, with lots of flowers and green slopes, good schools (if interested), and it's close to several beaches. AV also has about 23 parks for those who, like me, enjoy the outdoors. There is easy access to hiking at the 4,500 acre Aliso and Wood Canyons Wilderness Park. What's more, you can see the mountains when walking or driving around the city.
Much of what I said, with the exception of AV's density, political makeup, energy, entrepreneurship, and overall business environment, applies to most of South OC.
Oh, I almost forgot, it seems that Aliso Viejo is also host to the US's only Buddhist (inspired) university, Soka University of America.
In all, it's hard to pigeon-hole AV, but you might like it, or some other South OC city. Just don't expect it to be anything like the Bay Area.
7) The pace - LA is not quite NYC but let's face it ... the Bay Area is pretty sleepy compared to such places
Those are some of the biggies. There are several others but I need to move on to other tasks.
The Bay Area is for those who are ok with "sleepy". There's still plenty of world-class entertainment; the difference is that nightspots don't stay open really late. But that's ok, bc Bay Area people as a type are (or perhaps--were, before so much influx) more laid back, more outdoors-oriented, and low-key.
Just saying, for the OP's benefit.
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