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I don't let my feelings become part of any discussion on these forums, so don't worry about that. Is the crime rate for blacks higher when you consider their percent of the overall population, yes, "Astronomically high", no. But it's complex and I know how poorly nuanced answers are received on this forum but I will try anyway:
Crime is related more to poverty than it is to race:
Persons in poor households at or below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) (39.8 per 1,000) had more than double the rate of violent victimization as persons in high-income households (16.9 per 1,000).
Persons in poor households had a higher rate of violence involving a firearm (3.5 per 1,000) compared to persons above the FPL (0.8–2.5 per 1,000).
The overall pattern of poor persons having the highest rates of violent victimization was consistent for both whites and blacks. However, the rate of violent victimization for Hispanics did not vary across poverty levels.
Poor Hispanics (25.3 per 1,000) had lower rates of violence compared to poor whites (46.4 per 1,000) and poor blacks (43.4 per 1,000).
Poor persons living in urban areas (43.9 per 1,000) had violent victimization rates similar to poor persons living in rural areas (38.8 per 1,000).
Poor urban blacks (51.3 per 1,000) had rates of violence similar to poor urban whites (56.4 per 1,000).
When poverty is reduced, the violent crime rate drops
The results indicated that reductions in poverty were associated with reductions in violent crime rates in both predominately white and predominately black neighborhoods. Consistent with the racial invariance hypothesis suggested by the social disorganization and anomie perspectives, the effect of changes in poverty on changes in violent crime was statistically indistinguishable for the two racial groups. The results from our longitudinal analysis were also consistent with those of existing cross-sectional neighborhood level studies in this area. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
Also, I have lived in middle class neighborhoods with black neighbors my entire life, I've attended school with blacks and I've worked with blacks and I have a number of friends who are black. And to the best of my knowledge none of my black friends or acquaintances have ever been arrested for any crime, let alone a serious one.
Virtue:
Also, I have lived in middle class neighborhoods with black neighbors my entire life, I've attended school with blacks and I've worked with blacks and I have a number of friends who are black. And to the best of my knowledge none of my black friends or acquaintances have ever been arrested for any crime, let alone a serious one.
We all have. The virtue signaling can end now and the protest of the obvious using mental gymnastics (focusing on poverty and victimization, which is not even relevant) is not changing anything any more than when race-baiter Tim Wise does it.
Also, I have lived in middle class neighborhoods with black neighbors my entire life, I've attended school with blacks and I've worked with blacks and I have a number of friends who are black. And to the best of my knowledge none of my black friends or acquaintances have ever been arrested for any crime, let alone a serious one.
We all have. The virtue signaling can end now and the protest of the obvious using mental gymnastics (focusing on poverty and victimization, which is not even relevant) is not changing anything any more than when race-baiter Tim Wise does it.
When you have to resort to claiming that my response which was supported by data is "virtue signalling" I'm just plain done talking to you. BTW what's up with all the use of 'virtue', new meme you just picked up or what?
Yeah, I'm sorry now he seems to be blaming all crime on blacks..he must have gotten tired of blaming hispanics
There is a certain group within the black community that is responsible for that. Not blacks as a whole. That one group is responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime way beyond its numbers, or way beyond its counterparts of any other racial or ethnic group.
Nobody in their right mind would claim that the residents of Sequoyah or Caballo Hills in Oakland are crime prone, at least not any more than their white, Asian, or Latino counterparts. Deep East Oakland or the Lower Bottoms, OTOH....
There is a certain group within the black community that is responsible for that. Not blacks as a whole. That one group is responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime way beyond its numbers, or way beyond its counterparts of any other racial or ethnic group.
Nobody in their right mind would claim that the residents of Sequoyah or Caballo Hills in Oakland are crime prone, at least not any more than their white, Asian, or Latino counterparts. Deep East Oakland or the Lower Bottoms, OTOH....
I don't disagree, but those 'certain groups' are found in the most poverty stricken areas in the US, and if you look at some of the references I provided you can see that in areas of deep poverty all races are more apt to become involved in criminal activity and that reducing poverty tends to reduce the crime rate in those areas.
I don't disagree, but those 'certain groups' are found in the most poverty stricken areas in the US, and if you look at some of the references I provided you can see that in areas of deep poverty all races are more apt to become involved in criminal activity and that reducing poverty tends to reduce the crime rate in those areas.
Nonsense. More excuses that are not applicable to others.
Rape is always under-reported and has no relationship to the homicide rate.
Under-reported? NO...they are not reported to the FBI, only part 1 crimes (felonies) are reported and it's always been that way. If you want stats on misdemeanors check your State's Dept. of Justice website There is unreported crime all over the US and always has been, what exactly is your point? Are you claiming that the non-reporting of crime should be factored into crime stats or what? It's not only prostitutes and illegals who don't report crime, so let's stick to facts rather than engaging in speculation that supports your hypothesis. When I worked in LE the largest numbers of unreported crimes were those where the victim and suspect were related or known to each other. Most notably were large number of sexual assaults, domestic violence and theft cases that were only known to the Police when a third party reported it.
Ron Unz is not a criminologist or statistician he is a right wing hack libertarian who has spent most of his time since losing his bid for California Governor in 1994 desperately trying to 'prove' how dangerous hispanic people are. There is more of a correlation between the time of year (season) and the homicide rate than there is between homicide and robbery.
So, would it be fair to say that you 'think' the crime rate reported for Oakland is far higher than reported but try as you might, you just can't offer anything of substance that supports that?
Not sure what your beef is with what I wrote. My argument is this: ANYTHING that reduces crime reporting UNDERMINES any effort to assess which places have more crime and which people commit more crime. I gave a couple of examples of people unlikely to report. I never said it was an exhaustive list.
As for your other posts on this thread, Yes, poverty is a big factor in the kind of crime people are now blaming on blacks and suggesting immigrants do not commit. Once you control for poverty black crime rates and white crime rates are basically equal. NOTHING I said disagrees with that. Know why? Because that's MY view also, based on facts. I just did not address that in my posts, because I felt it useful to simply point out--the crime statistics are seriously flawed.
To those who keep claiming "Homicides are always reported," I ask, what do you say when someone goes missing, they happen to get a good lead on a suspect, they search and find the person's body a week later in the suspect's back yard, and while digging up that person they find another 20? How does that square with your "All homicides are reported" propaganda? Some of those newly-discovered homicides were runaways, transients, and other people no one knew were victims of foul play until the unexpected discovery. How many other shallow cemeteries are there out there right now? How many victims are you willing to disappear by asserting that all homicides are reported?
Its a basic fact of data--there is ALWAYS error. Questions concern how much and what pattern is there to the error (if any), not whether there are errors. Anyone who tries to tell you differently, you should assume they're trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Even the analysts that collected the original data used to confirm relativity theory had to account for recording errors. Crime data is even more likely to have errors.
Not sure what your beef is with what I wrote. My argument is this: ANYTHING that reduces crime reporting UNDERMINES any effort to assess which places have more crime and which people commit more crime. I gave a couple of examples of people unlikely to report. I never said it was an exhaustive list.
As for your other posts on this thread, Yes, poverty is a big factor in the kind of crime people are now blaming on blacks and suggesting immigrants do not commit. Once you control for poverty black crime rates and white crime rates are basically equal. NOTHING I said disagrees with that. Know why? Because that's MY view also, based on facts. I just did not address that in my posts, because I felt it useful to simply point out--the crime statistics are seriously flawed.
To those who keep claiming "Homicides are always reported," I ask, what do you say when someone goes missing, they happen to get a good lead on a suspect, they search and find the person's body a week later in the suspect's back yard, and while digging up that person they find another 20? How does that square with your "All homicides are reported" propaganda? Some of those newly-discovered homicides were runaways, transients, and other people no one knew were victims of foul play until the unexpected discovery. How many other shallow cemeteries are there out there right now? How many victims are you willing to disappear by asserting that all homicides are reported?
Its a basic fact of data--there is ALWAYS error. Questions concern how much and what pattern is there to the error (if any), not whether there are errors. Anyone who tries to tell you differently, you should assume they're trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Even the analysts that collected the original data used to confirm relativity theory had to account for recording errors. Crime data is even more likely to have errors.
to be fair, homicides are nearly always reported, there are exceptions to everything but compared to other crimes homicides are reported far more frequently. And I sincerely apologize if I misstated or misunderstood anything in your post.
Not sure what your beef is with what I wrote. My argument is this: ANYTHING that reduces crime reporting UNDERMINES any effort to assess which places have more crime and which people commit more crime. I gave a couple of examples of people unlikely to report. I never said it was an exhaustive list.
As for your other posts on this thread, Yes, poverty is a big factor in the kind of crime people are now blaming on blacks and suggesting immigrants do not commit. Once you control for poverty black crime rates and white crime rates are basically equal. NOTHING I said disagrees with that. Know why? Because that's MY view also, based on facts. I just did not address that in my posts, because I felt it useful to simply point out--the crime statistics are seriously flawed.
To those who keep claiming "Homicides are always reported," I ask, what do you say when someone goes missing, they happen to get a good lead on a suspect, they search and find the person's body a week later in the suspect's back yard, and while digging up that person they find another 20? How does that square with your "All homicides are reported" propaganda? Some of those newly-discovered homicides were runaways, transients, and other people no one knew were victims of foul play until the unexpected discovery. How many other shallow cemeteries are there out there right now? How many victims are you willing to disappear by asserting that all homicides are reported?
Its a basic fact of data--there is ALWAYS error. Questions concern how much and what pattern is there to the error (if any), not whether there are errors. Anyone who tries to tell you differently, you should assume they're trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Even the analysts that collected the original data used to confirm relativity theory had to account for recording errors. Crime data is even more likely to have errors.
Then what exactly do you think contribute to higher crime rates among the black population?
It is not genetic or biological. It's a cultural thing among poor inner city ghetto African-Americans. Middle and upper class blacks don't have this nor do black immigrants. Government policies like welfare and affirmative action helped creat this as did a violent oppositional attitude against American culture that is a legacy of the '60s
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