The San Francisco Trash/Needles/Poop in the Streets Containment Thread (Marina: cost, legal)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Not true...maybe here in CA that's how it is but it's not like that in other states. You need to broaden your perspectives.

It's a 9th circuit decision, it covers the following states:

Alaska
Washington
Oregon
Idaho
Montana
Nevada
Arizona
California

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...4/15-35845.pdf

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

That is temporary assistance to get people on their feet, as it should. When you have permanent section 8 vouchers, public housing projects, lifetime food stamps - it is no longer giving a boost, it is clearly dependence. Even someone as biased as yourself should be able to see that

HUD vouchers require annual recertification, if you make too much money you lose the voucher. TANF has a federal lifetime limit of 5 years but most states have imposed a shorter time, in some states TANF is limited to 12 months. SNAP benefits for abled bodied adults without children is limited to 3 months every 36 months. It might be a good idea for you to look into how these programs work before you comment on them.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

That is temporary assistance to get people on their feet, as it should. When you have permanent section 8 vouchers, public housing projects, lifetime food stamps - it is no longer giving a boost, it is clearly dependence. Even someone as biased as yourself should be able to see that

You don’t know a thing about any bias on my part. I have delivered nothing but facts. To tie some of those (facts) to what you have just mangled:

Given that approximately 75% of homeless at any given point in time are NOT chronically homeless, then it stands that assistance provided IS, in fact “temporary - to get people on their feet”.

“Permanent section 8 vouchers” provide housing :. The recipients thus aren’t homeless ... and section 8 vouchers can be applied for and awarded anywhere in the nation :. homeless persons don’t have to travel to any “liberal” location to gain section 8.

Same goes for “food stamps” ... which, by the way, aren’t “lifetime” in today’s system. (See 2Sleepy’s post above.)

(Furthermore, you clearly have absolutely zero grasp of how hard it is to gain welfare support of any kind ... and how limited it is.) ... (See 2Sleepy’s post above, again.)

Again, you are trying to conflate all homeless with the 25% minority of that population who are chronically so. Nor do you understand the slightest realities about the chronically homeless ... as evidenced by your protest that “higher standards” would somehow magically cure conditions like schziophrenia or financially crippling medical disasters.

Your disgust toward the truly small number of willfully lazy transient homeless casts a net of arrogant superciliousness across close to 90% of the homeless who are either beset by temporary or long-term disastrous conditions ... most of whom DO, in fact move on through their set back in a matter of months ... and a number who are crippled for life by mental and physical disorders that have nothing to do with choice whatsoever.

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

De-institutionalization was a well-intentioned program starting in the late 1960's.

It was supposed to convert inhumane and, for the patient ineffective confinement into treatment in the community. This April 2, 1972 article, which I remembered reading, The Patients Can Walk Out At Any Time at Bronx State Mental Hospital (link) made the case for de-institutionalization. Unfortunately few were as motivated as Israel Zwerling, and most looked at the process as a way of saving money.

The problem was that subsequent governments and policies didn't provide the resources for follow up treatment and assistance that was needed - and it became easy for later cash-strapped governments to just wash their hands of it and underfund the support services.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

It's a 9th circuit decision, it covers the following states:

Alaska
Washington
Oregon
Idaho
Montana
Nevada
Arizona
California

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...4/15-35845.pdf

Yep thanks for supporting what I stated. It's not true in all states and that you needed to broaden your perspectives.

[Matadora]

SF is a cesspool of filth everywhere you look...unless you're wearing your reality proof rose colored glasses.

Doo-Doo, the New Urban Crisis

Data compiled by RealtyHop shows the number of complaints have risen every year from 2011 to 2018, and the number almost tripled -- from 5,606 to 20,899 -- from 2011-2017. So far in 2018, there have been more than 16,310 complaints logged, which may surpass last year.

"While one would assume that lower-income neighborhoods might experience worse poop issues, that is not the case in San Francisco," according to the website. "It seems that the poop crisis in San Francisco is unlike what we see in other cities (where you can just blame it on the cute furry little friends of ours), it reflects more so a social crisis."

[BlakeJones]

Originally Posted by Matadora

SF is a cesspool of filth everywhere you look...unless you're wearing your reality proof rose colored glasses.

Doo-Doo, the New Urban Crisis



"While one would assume that lower-income neighborhoods might experience worse poop issues, that is not the case in San Francisco," according to the website. "It seems that the poop crisis in San Francisco is unlike what we see in other cities (where you can just blame it on the cute furry little friends of ours), it reflects more so a social crisis."

The homeless that take a dump in the nicer neighborhoods no doubt get a thrill from doing it and see it as some sort of retaliation against functional society. Obviously they wouldn't be doing it if they thought the police would actually do their job

[BlakeJones]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

HUD vouchers require annual recertification, if you make too much money you lose the voucher. TANF has a federal lifetime limit of 5 years but most states have imposed a shorter time, in some states TANF is limited to 12 months. SNAP benefits for abled bodied adults without children is limited to 3 months every 36 months. It might be a good idea for you to look into how these programs work before you comment on them.

Thanks for proving my point - the annual certification is actually a perverse incentive for beneficiaries to NOT make more money because they would lose their benefits. The SNAP benefits for people with kids is pretty much an entitlement for the life of the children until adulthood

[TCROX]

Please remember vote NO! on props 1 and 2! These are typical, despicable money stealing propositions- over 16 billion dollars to throw into the elite back accounts with interest totaling over 32 billion! Money better spent on getting the excon vagrants and mentally ill back into secured facilities where they have a chance for care and hope- as usual.. it's lots of money gone and nothing will get better - fluffy feel good language with NEGATIVE results from the libs. ...they have lots of money now and its getting worse and worse and worse--NOW lets cut em off and boot em out!
NO on props 1 and 2 !! YES on prop 6 Yes on John Cox

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Thanks for proving my point - the annual certification is actually a perverse incentive for beneficiaries to NOT make more money because they would lose their benefits. The SNAP benefits for people with kids is pretty much an entitlement for the life of the children until adulthood

What would you like to see happen to Section 8 recipients if we evict them after a year? And who is going to feed kids when their parents time out on SNAP benefits?

And about those section 8 vouchers, there are only enough vouchers for a little over 20% of the people who qualify and getting one is very difficult and often entails a 5 + year wait. Here's a breakdown of who actually receives those vouchers:

• 36% of public housing and 43% of Section 8 housing households include a member who is disabled.
• Social Security payments are the primary source of income for approximately 55% of seniors in public housing and 57% of seniors living in Section 8 housing.
• The primary source of income for 35% of public housing resident households and 35% of residents of Section 8 housing is through wages.
• Nearly 327,000 or 16% of residents in public housing are seniors (age 62 and above), and approximately 500,000 or 10% of residents of Section 8 housing are seniors.
• Approximately 754,900 children (ages 0-17) live in public housing representing 37% of residents living in public housing. Approximately 2 million children live in Section 8 housing representing 43% of residents living in Section 8 housing.

https://nchph.org/wp-content/uploads...eet-2016-1.pdf