Please, no more low income housing in Marin! (Vallejo: rent, credit)

[Ceece]

Originally Posted by kttam186290

I have to ask, though, why is it OK for people in Marin, Malibu, Benedict Canyon, Bel Air and other places to not have to see poor people?

Why should they be able to keep Section 8 out, and other areas can't?

Ehh. You earn enough to be able to live away from riff raff then are told you must invite those who haven't earned squat to be your neighbors...there's something wrong with that. When you remove the motivation to succeed to get the best you can, and just PROVIDE IT under a false sense of "fairness" to those that have done nothing, then society is doomed.

[Ultrarunner]

The intent of Section 8 is to be the answer to the Projects.

The goal is to disburse Housing paid with Federal HUD money throughout the land and it is very effective.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

The intent of Section 8 is to be the answer to the Projects.

The goal is to disburse Housing paid with Federal HUD money throughout the land and it is very effective.

Yes. The problem with “the projects” historically, wasn’t that they were low income housing ... it was that they created ghettos by massively concentrating the problems of low income exclusive of broader, diverse influences.

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

The intent of Section 8 is to be the answer to the Projects.

The goal is to disburse Housing paid with Federal HUD money throughout the land and it is very effective.

And of course you and I know that Section 8 vouchers in this area are few and far between - waiting lists are long and possibly closed for the near future.

[Ultrarunner]

One of the big problems is not the number of Vouchers but the number of Units available to Voucher holders.

For many years... local HUD offices maintained a strict timeline for placement once the Voucher was issued... now, especially in some high cost areas, 80% or more New Voucher Holders are not able to find acceptable housing in 12 months.

As a manager... I was for a very long time a big supporter of Section 8 program... even asked to be on the provider advisory board way back when.

My problem and that of many I know is the program today bears little resemblence to how it started...

The big change for me is when Housing got out of the Security Deposit Guarantee and left a owners holding the bag...

Say I rented a nice 3 bedroom single family home for $1200 a month... including gardner and garbage service... Housing might fix the Security Deposit at $150 whereas open market I would would charge $1800 security... 1.5 times the rent.

Housing makes a unilateral change mid contract so now I have families with mandated $60 to $150 security deposits and no HUD backing... for which they needed to become tenants.

There are other issues such as going to contract inspectors that often know very little and are paid by the visit whereas the HUD workers knew family history and could sit down and explain situations with authority...

The other reason is Fair Market Rents often have not kept up with the Open Market in high demand areas.

Think about it... why would Housing Providers shy away from partial guarenteed market rent unless experience has shown the reality is higher risk?

I still have some legacy Section 8 and they will remain as long as they choose... I am not accepting new holders as a business decision.

Anyone around long enough will have horror stories and I have a few... by and large I found Section 8 tenants to be like any other tenants except for financial resources...

Interesting Side Notes...

Originally, the Housing Authourity leased the property and was fully responsible for placing tenants and maintianing property circa 1970's

Also, the reason cited for Housing getting out of the Security Deposit side of things is high losses or claim payouts... this alone should speak volumes because if a Voucher Holder does not pay back Housing for damage the Certificate is in Jeapordy... much stronger position to be in than a Mom and Pop with a duplex...

Also... some very nice property does not meet Housing Quality Standards... case in point... I know a widow with a nice small home in Livermore and she found someone with Section 8 to rent... the widow was going to a retirement community.

Her home failed inspection because she did not have the required number of window screens... her home has very nice windows and central HVAC... she never opened a window due to her allergies and had a HEPPA HVAC filter.

So a perfectly livable nice residential home failed to meet the standard over a dozen window screens...

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

My problem and that of many I know is the program today bears little resemblence to how it started...

The big change for me is when Housing got out of the Security Deposit Guarantee and left a owners holding the bag...

... by and large I found Section 8 tenants to be like any other tenants except for financial resources...

I have found differently. The mind set of some sec 8 renters is not at all like normal paying people. There is less care in the properties as the tenant has no skin in the game.
You would think a tenant would take care of the place and be in good standing with sec 8 as it's free money. But I've had sec 8 utterly destroy a place with no fear of being kicked off sec 8. In alabama sec 8 sides with the tenants often and even if you show pictures of all the damages, they will not kick the person off sec 8 and the sec 8 tenant just goes on to the next place until they use it up then repeat.

[Ultrarunner]

^^^Very sad... but it does happen.

I'm on site several times each month... also, Section 8 tend to be a lot more management intensive.

If the rent is not in I will be knocking on the door asking for it with a notice in the other hand.

One of the biggest problems is having the house full of people not on the lease.

Not having any new Section 8 tenants and my existing all over 12 years gives provides a good indicator of things... many have been single seniors in 1-bedroom apartments and disabled couples.

Still pity one senior... she was 80 and lived a alone for a long time... still was working in her 70's until health made that impossible... when I took over management her rent was 450 and her income 650... I was able to get her on the program and it greatly improved her quality of life... then, about two years later her son comes into the picture and gives notice... she moves into his home and he is thinking the checks will go to him???

Not how housing works and put her in a bad situation... he wanted to put her back in my building when he found out he was not going to be paid for housing her... I had no vacancies... very sad...

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

^^^Very sad... but it does happen.

I'm on site several times each month... also, Section 8 tend to be a lot more management intensive.

If the rent is not in I will be knocking on the door asking for it with a notice in the other hand.

One of the biggest problems is having the house full of people not on the lease.

Not having any new Section 8 tenants and my existing all over 12 years gives provides a good indicator of things... many have been single seniors in 1-bedroom apartments and disabled couples.

Still pity one senior... she was 80 and lived a alone for a long time... still was working in her 70's until health made that impossible... when I took over management her rent was 450 and her income 650... I was able to get her on the program and it greatly improved her quality of life... then, about two years later her son comes into the picture and gives notice... she moves into his home and he is thinking the checks will go to him???

Not how housing works and put her in a bad situation... he wanted to put her back in my building when he found out he was not going to be paid for housing her... I had no vacancies... very sad...

My very first sec 8 tenant was an elderly couple. They treated the property like it was their own. I was so pleased with them I went to the sec 8 in Hayward to get more tenants. The ones sitting in the lobby and in the offices were the biggest losers I'd ever seen.
I remember 2 people in dirty sweatpants with a big bag of pork rinds in the office eating and making a mess on the floor.
The worker asked them how it came to be that all the screens were broken off the windows on the rental they were in.
With full mouths crunching on pork rinds they said it was the wind, The worker said " On all 4 sides?"

Those people had no respect for anyone else or themselves. That put me off on sec 8.

Two months ago I had a house go vacant that I bought where I inherited the tenants on sec 8. It cost me over $ 4300 to get it rent ready from all their damage and garbage they left. Sec 8 doesn't pay for any damage and I won't collect from the tenants. If they had money to collect they wouldn't be on sec 8 to start with. This is the reason many landlords won't take sec 8 anymore. It's too risky.

[NoMoreSnowForMe]

Originally Posted by silverkris

And of course you and I know that Section 8 vouchers in this area are few and far between - waiting lists are long and possibly closed for the near future.

Perhaps slightly off topic, but yes, this is true. What you have to do is move somewhere where the Section 8 list is open and get on that list. This area also must have rents that are cheap enough that you can afford them at market rate, while you wait to get your Section 8 voucher. So, we're talking about moving to the boonies where most people don't want to live or, hello, their list would be closed.

Then, you get on waiting lists back in the Bay Area, and then fulfill your 6 month or 1 year contract in the boonies. And, you have to have enough moving money to move when your number gets called on a waiting list back in Silicon Valley. And if you got a Section 8 voucher, you need to be sure they accept it. Hint - any of them that get government housing must accept your voucher - unless, of course, you look like too great a risk. They don't need perfect credit, but they need to feel secure you'll make the payments, etc.

And, you also do your best to improve your credit score in the meantime, and save up a ton of money to move - and, even if you have a Section 8 voucher, you have to pay their normal, market rate security deposit with cash on hand. This can be around $1,300 plus, as it was in my case. Yep, low income housing for seniors, I have a Section 8 voucher, but I still had to have nearly $1,300 to give them as a security deposit I won't ever see again, as I plan to live here until I die now.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Two months ago I had a house go vacant that I bought where I inherited the tenants on sec 8. It cost me over $ 4300 to get it rent ready from all their damage and garbage they left. Sec 8 doesn't pay for any damage and I won't collect from the tenants. If they had money to collect they wouldn't be on sec 8 to start with. This is the reason many landlords won't take sec 8 anymore. It's too risky.

This is why the two months HUD guarantee going away was a deal changer for me.

I have had S8 families pay nearly total rent except for $20 HAP and also had families where housing paid 100% of the rent and sent the family a few dollars as they were underhoused... happened when twins were born resulting in husband and wife with 4 kids in a two bedroom.

Almost all of my HUD experience is SF East Bay... including Hayward plus a little in Washington State.

When Vouchers became portable... a lot of my tenants relocated to Hayward, Vallejo, Antioch, etc... most wanted to come back because these areas didn't meet expectations or they found it difficult to move every year or two... i.e. when houses sold.

Window screens seem to always be a problem and custom screens are not something that can be picked up as they have to be made... plus the time to order/make and install.

Amazes me how I can put up or take down a screen without damage yet so many tenants can't... sorry going off topic.