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I think people moving out is eventually what will happen. You can go anywhere in the NW, SE, midwest in America and there are California transplants looking for a better life. I like it here but it would not be affordable for me if I had a family. As a former Philly/Jersey resident, I can say that SF is a really yuppie, not that diverse city these days. The Bay Area as a whole is quite diverse, but any nice neighborhood in Sf is going to be mostly white/asian.
Having lived in expensive places like Hawaii, Boston, Southern California and now SF metro, I believe that in general - you get what you pay for in terms of quality of life.
I lived for 3 years in Houston, Texas for work. It's really cheap. Everything really is bigger in Texas. Lots of people are moving there because of the low cost. Yet it's so hot and humid. Six months out of the year you are stuck indoors in freezing airconditioning. It seems like 1 in 3 cars there is a Hummer with a George W. Bush bumper sticker on it. I couldn't wait to get out of there!
Sav858, I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass with my response to you, but why do you choose to remain in SF? I would not live someplace where I was as miserable or dissatisfied. We create our experiences you know?
SF doesn't have to be expensive, but it is and yes it is relatively 'non-expensive' or 'very expensive' depending on whom you ask. However, I've bumped into a few millionnaires who would also say it's expensive, they tend to be the most frugal people anyway. It's why they're millionnaires.
You really have to consider the economics of the world, the US and California right now. We are not doing that well. The dollar is not doing that well. The economy sucks overall. Take a global economy or finance class at city college or something. Get educated. California's economy is considered on the same level as a separate unique country, compared to the rest of the world. It has a highly fluctuating economy...that's one reason for the high cost of living. I mean it's just one little reason why SF is expensive to live. I refuse to list the rest, which are obvious, lol. There is a trickle down effect happening everywhere in this country...so pick which place you want to complain about next very carefully.
Life's too long...enjoy it and stop affirming SF is expensive. The more you say this, the more you make it true for yourself. I was hardly rolling in loads of cash when I lived in San Francisco and I was able to make end's meet. I wanted to live in the City and accepted the fact that it has a high cost of living. When I decided I wanted my dollar to go further, I chose to move. Simple as that.
Regarding the change, every city or town changes over time. The only thing in life that is constant is change. Don't remember who quoted this, but I'm sure you've heard it before.
Did you even read the post that began this thread?
Peace.
I don't live in SF currently. I was born and raised in the Bay Area and have seriously thought about moving back b/c I really miss my family and friends there and want to be there to watch my little siblings grow up. But it's so damn expensive and it wasn't always that way. I don't know if you're a native or not but it's a lot different that it used to be.
And MY POINT was is that is DOESN'T have to be this expensive, I've stated that several times including in my original post and I don't see why that is such a difficult concept to grasp. These high prices are not just b/c of "demand". I'm not miserable but am just saddened by what the Bay Area has turned into and what it is turning into. And people like you just act like this is normal and we should just eat the cost. It's amazing that most of these comments defending the absurd and artificial high cost of living is coming from people that are well off or financially comfortable. It's easy to say this stuff when you don't have to worry about it, it's that type of arrogant mentality in the Bay Area that irks the hell out of me and that is part of the problem why it's so expensive. That are a lot of problems, mainly politicians and public policy, in the Bay Area that cause it to be more expensive than it has to be, and that was MY main POINT this whole time. Get it now?
I don't live in SF currently. I was born and raised in the Bay Area and have seriously thought about moving back b/c I really miss my family and friends there and want to be there to watch my little siblings grow up. But it's so damn expensive and it wasn't always that way. I don't know if you're a native or not but it's a lot different that it used to be.
And MY POINT was is that is DOESN'T have to be this expensive, I've stated that several times including in my original post and I don't see why that is such a difficult concept to grasp. These high prices are not just b/c of "demand". I'm not miserable but am just saddened by what the Bay Area has turned into and what it is turning into. And people like you just act like this is normal and we should just eat the cost. It's amazing that most of these comments defending the absurd and artificial high cost of living is coming from people that are well off or financially comfortable. It's easy to say this stuff when you don't have to worry about it, it's that type of arrogant mentality in the Bay Area that irks the hell out of me and that is part of the problem why it's so expensive. That are a lot of problems, mainly politicians and public policy, in the Bay Area that cause it to be more expensive than it has to be, and that was MY main POINT this whole time. Get it now?
But it is all about demand. Any and all rentals that you could consider remotely affordable are snapped up in an instant, in part because everyone between here and Stockton, Sacramento or Santa Rosa commutes to SF and would love to trim that commute, and in part because outsiders are rightly attracted to it. That's not going to change unless SF ceases being a major international player with a steady stream of good jobs.
But it is all about demand. Any and all rentals that you could consider remotely affordable are snapped up in an instant, in part because everyone between here and Stockton, Sacramento or Santa Rosa commutes to SF and would love to trim that commute, and in part because outsiders are rightly attracted to it. That's not going to change unless SF ceases being a major international player with a steady stream of good jobs.
There are MANY other factors that drive up the cost of housing besides just demand, especially when you are looking to buy, and that is what I am talking about. Not to mention all of the other things that add to a higher cost of living here that don't have to do with housing but more so with public policy. I've already stated that the Bay Area is desirable and it should be expected to have higher housing costs b/c of that, but it's beyond reasonable and artificially higher than it has to be. Why is this such a difficult concept for some of you to grasp?
There are MANY other factors that drive up the cost of housing besides just demand, especially when you are looking to buy, and that is what I am talking about. Not to mention all of the other things that add to a higher cost of living here that don't have to do with housing but more so with public policy. I've already stated that the Bay Area is desirable and it should be expected to have higher housing costs b/c of that, but it's beyond reasonable and artificially higher than it has to be. Why is this such a difficult concept for some of you to grasp?
People are still buying real estate in San Francisco, and they're paying $1000 per sf in the Marina, Pacific Heights, and other choice neighborhoods. Yes, policies like Prop. 13, rent control, and San Mateo County's stonewalling against new development have a part. Those also aren't new issues. The extraordinary demand, however, is.
People are still buying real estate in San Francisco, and they're paying $1000 per sf in the Marina, Pacific Heights, and other choice neighborhoods. Yes, policies like Prop. 13, rent control, and San Mateo County's stonewalling against new development have a part. Those also aren't new issues. The extraordinary demand, however, is.
I'm not saying there isn't demand and I never have; I've said several times that the Bay Area will have higher demand than most other places so I'm not really sure why you keep bringing it up when my whole point/rant was about other factors that unnecessarily drive up costs. Also despite the high demand, the population of SF, San Mateo County, and other parts of the Bay Area has been decreasing or flat, which is fine by me. Alright, I'm pretty much done now, I've stated several times over my feelings towards the high cost of living and how it's not just demand but other factors that drive up the cost of LIVING, not just housing. But that seems something people here don't seem to care about b/c they have the means to be able to not to.
I'm not saying there isn't demand and I never have; I've said several times that the Bay Area will have higher demand than most other places so I'm not really sure why you keep bringing it up when my whole point/rant was about other factors that unnecessarily drive up costs. Also despite the high demand, the population of SF, San Mateo County, and other parts of the Bay Area has been decreasing or flat, which is fine by me. Alright, I'm pretty much done now, I've stated several times over my feelings towards the high cost of living and how it's not just demand but other factors that drive up the cost of LIVING, not just housing. But that seems something people here don't seem to care about b/c they have the means to be able to not to.
What do you propose that needs to be done to make SFBA more affordable? Building more highrises? Stopping rent control? Do you know of any plausible plan, do you know exactly why our politics are failing and what exactly is wrong. Do you know the 'solutions' will work?
I've been to a few large highrise ridden international cities that are much more expensive than SF. Is there something wrong with their city planning?
I am trying to be open minded, I just don't know what exactly you are proposing and it seems that you know of some solution. Hey, maybe you are, we are all interested to know. I would like to see some examples of cities that have done just that.
I'm not saying there isn't demand and I never have; I've said several times that the Bay Area will have higher demand than most other places so I'm not really sure why you keep bringing it up when my whole point/rant was about other factors that unnecessarily drive up costs. Also despite the high demand, the population of SF, San Mateo County, and other parts of the Bay Area has been decreasing or flat, which is fine by me. Alright, I'm pretty much done now, I've stated several times over my feelings towards the high cost of living and how it's not just demand but other factors that drive up the cost of LIVING, not just housing. But that seems something people here don't seem to care about b/c they have the means to be able to not to.
Well let's get into some specifics. Do you mean taxation? Health care? Food? Fuel? Those I can agree with. (It's positively stupid that we live in the shadow of a Chevron refinery and still have to pay what we do.) It's offset a bit by reduced heating and cooling costs due to the mild climate, not to mention the fact that the weather is never bad enough to close roads or shut down businesses. The real out-of-pocket cost of a major snowstorm can be huge.
I should add that I can't afford San Francisco, as a musician. It wouldn't matter how much I trimmed down or what neighborhood I "settled" for - it's too much. I can't even get into the Sunnydale Projects. Even if the rent was the same (it isn't), the spike in insurance rates alone could bankrupt me. But I'm perfectly happy living about fifteen minutes away from the city center. It's just like the NYC metro area in miniature.
What do you propose that needs to be done to make SFBA more affordable? Building more highrises? Stopping rent control? Do you know of any plausible plan, do you know exactly why our politics are failing and what exactly is wrong. Do you know the 'solutions' will work?
I've been to a few large highrise ridden international cities that are much more expensive than SF. Is there something wrong with their city planning?
I am trying to be open minded, I just don't know what exactly you are proposing and it seems that you know of some solution. Hey, maybe you are, we are all interested to know. I would like to see some examples of cities that have done just that.
Take a land use planning class or something instead of sitting around waiting to be told what to do and go learn about issues related to land use and growth. I seriously don't feel like writing a whole essay right now but I'll throw out some general things that I think are wrong with the Bay Area (but are not necessarily unique to the region) :
-get rid of or revamp Prop 13, which really drives up housing prices by a variety of ways
-less restrictive and overly cumbersome building and development regulations. You'd be surprised how much time and money these things add.
-no or limited rent control
-more density, which does NOT mean more high rises necessarily.
-less taxes and fees such as $4 and $5 bridge tolls. The San Diego-Coronado Bridge stopped charging tolls after the bridge was paid off
Also stop proposing more ridiculous taxes and regulations like the $.10/per gallon of gas tax the MTC wants to enact. I can't believe anyone would even propose that give the record high gas prices.
I'm not an expert or claim to have solutions to all the Bay Area problems. But I see how its different in some aspects compared to elsewhere and how it artificially drives up the cost of living.
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I was hardly rolling in loads of cash when I lived in San Francisco and I was able to make end's meet. I wanted to live in the City and accepted the fact that it has a high cost of living. When I decided I wanted my dollar to go further, I chose to move. Simple as that.
