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Old 02-01-2020, 10:09 AM
 
905 posts, read 575,503 times
Reputation: 1282

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
Another +1



At least someone gets it. Rational people like yourself are either going to get so fed up they demand change from politicians or move out leaving only the extreme liberals to give even more freedom to SF's dug crazed homeless population.
Totally agree. The situation is out of control both in numbers and brazenness of behavior. Nowhere else I’ve ever been do you see people shooting up heroin in the streets with impunity, and the sheer numbers seem to grow and grow nearly every time I visit. Head in the sand apologists will only ensure it gets worse. There are still areas of SF worth visiting where the issue is minimal, but for how long...
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:47 AM
 
Location: On the water.
16,994 posts, read 9,568,676 times
Reputation: 14250
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgforshort View Post
"Many homeless will indeed filch a sandwich when hungry, snatch a bicycle left unlocked, urinate in a public park, and many other misdemeanor level crimes. They are desperate to survive, right or wrong. What they don’t do at any elevated rate is attack members of the general community."

With all respect, I think you are wrong on that.

From Crescent City to Yuba City the distance is about 340 miles, or 230 if you fly a plane. We have two local TV stations covering the area and they don't have enough staff. Their main offices are in Chico and Redding. They simply can't cover urinating in public or filching a sandwich. Violent crimes like attack, burglary, drug arrests, car thefts, hijacking, kidnapping attempts, arson, are usually reported. Most arson here is deliberate or negligent and the arsonists are 70-80 % identified as "transient" because we hate to tarnish the reputation of the homeless.

In politically correct California, only the "transients" commit felonies, while the homeless needs all the help we can provide.

The newspapers and TV stations are heavily biased in favor of the homeless population and I believe the crimes reported are only a fraction of the real number.
While I don't have accurate statistics, I think the majority of crimes are committed by males under the influence of narcotics, followed by the homeless, and last come the career criminals and drug dealers / buyers ripping off each other.
And with all respect returned, you are once again conflating the violence issue I specified with non-violent crime. Violent crime is defined:
Quote:
18 U.S. Code § 16. Crime of violence defined
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
The term “crime of violence” means—
(a) an offense that has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or prop*erty of another, or
(b) any other offense that is a felony and that, by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.
This definition can certainly include arson ... but does not apply to all incidents loosely described as arson. Arson can be willful violence. It can also be charged as “criminal mischief” or “destruction of property” when occurring as result of careless activity:
Quote:
First degree arson generally occurs when people are harmed or killed in the course of the fire, while second degree arson occurs when significant destruction of property occurs. While usually a felony, arson may also be prosecuted as a misdemeanor, "criminal mischief", or "destruction of property."
While homeless persons are responsible for more than their share of fires, these incidents are almost always accidents or criminal carelessness in the course of trying to cook and or stay warm in an unsafe manner.


The point I have been trying to focus on is that the constant conflation of violent crime with homelessness builds a stereotyping mythology that actually feeds violence against the homeless in far greater measure than the homeless commit against the general, housed, public. In my forum history I have placed probably thousands (literally) of posts on the topic of homelessness. I would bet that I have referenced the following at least several hundred times:
Quote:
over the last 17 years, at least 1,657 people experiencing homelessness have been the victims of violence perpetrated for the sole reason that they were unhoused at the time. This number includes 428 men and women who lost their lives for being homeless, and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It is easy to see a correlation between the appearance of laws criminalizing homelessness, and the increase of hate crimes or violent acts against homeless people. A 2014 report from the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty found that out of 187 cities that have enacted some type of law criminalizing daily activities often carried out by people without stable housing, 21 cities were located in California (11%) and 17 were in Florida (9%). No Safe Street finds that out of 199 attacks against homeless persons in 2014-2015, the largest share of incidents took place in California (43 attacks) and Florida (18 attacks).

One possible explanation for this is the message that criminalizing homelessness sends to the general public: “Homeless people do not matter and are not worthy of living in our city.” This message is blatant in the attitudes many cities have toward homeless people and can be used as an internal justification for attacking someone.

No Safe Street cites more than double the number of fatalities from bias motivated violence against people who are homeless than the FBI has tracked for all federally protected classes combined. Professor of Criminal Justice at California State University San Bernardino, Brian Levin, finds that “the characteristics of bias attacks against the homeless are very similar to that of hate crime in general. As with other hate crimes, offenders fit a pattern: typically, young male “thrill offenders” acting on stereotypes, seeking excitement and peer validation.”


https://nationalhomeless.org/categor...-the-homeless/
What I bolded above is what I am working to convey: the more people create the fear mythologies that vilify the homeless, the more violence is heaped on this underclass undeservedly. Remember that approximately 75% of persons homeless at any given time - will find housing and stability within a year (average time homeless is just a few months). For the 25% (somewhat higher rate in San Francisco) who are chronically homeless, the danger of suffering violence runs at an estimated rate of 10 - 20x the rate of the general, housed public.

Demonizing the already miserable does nothing to solve their or the public’s problem with this growing disaster.
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Paradise CA, that place on fire
1,193 posts, read 661,334 times
Reputation: 3245
No one is demonizing the homeless here, if anything they are often referred to as an endangered species worth caring for. This is Northern California, not the deep south.

Once again, our town, Paradise, is a conservative place with mostly older residents like myself. They don't demonize anybody, not the homeless, but they don't go out of their way to take care of them unless they have been victimized by the 2018 fire, which is an entirely different scenario.

Chico is completely different. Young, liberal, thousands of college students, all supporting the homeless, be it by attitude / compassion only or actual help with food, shelter, money.

The end result is that in Paradise we seldom hear of any misdemeanor committed by a homeless person. In Chico it happens all the time, and felonies, sexual assault, murder, rape, robbery, burglary are frequent.

Two different towns, different approach, bring entirely different outcome in the end.

Last edited by mgforshort; 02-01-2020 at 11:38 AM..
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Old 02-01-2020, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Paradise CA, that place on fire
1,193 posts, read 661,334 times
Reputation: 3245
There was a story two years ago in Chico. A liberal non-profit agency rented a house for homeless veterans. They all lived there happily, 7 or 8 of them, until one went to sleep with a cigarette and the whole house burned down. No one died, the agency was frantic to find them another house. Homeless are their own worst enemies.

As a self storage manager I've met hundreds and hundreds of homeless while on the job, every single day, for 15 years in Orange County.
Maybe 10 % became homeless after a job loss, bankruptcy, or medical disaster. Within 6-7 months they found a new place and rebuilt their lives.

The other 90 % was homeless due to drug addiction or aversion to work. That 90 % was usually stronger, healthier, younger than me. The only difference was that I had a strong work ethic, but they had nothing like that.

During my 15 years there I have not met a single homeless who was mentally ill, but then again, I don't have any medical training to recognize that unless they were obviously crazy.

Last edited by mgforshort; 02-01-2020 at 11:47 AM..
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Old 02-01-2020, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Tulare County, Ca
1,448 posts, read 918,046 times
Reputation: 2836
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
My Gawd is that guy is soooooo dirty. I hope they send him away for 100 years. Here's a lot more info on the nefarious Mohammed Nuru aka Mr Clean.


aSF Public Works Director Mohammed Nuru arrested by FBI ...

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...d-15010510.php

San Francisco Public Works Director Mohammed Nuru has been arrested by the FBI on suspicion of public corruption, according to several people with knowledge of the matter.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:27 PM
 
Location: US
20,625 posts, read 20,216,794 times
Reputation: 16665
The more the city allows homeless to run free, commit crimes, cause public disturbances because they are allowed to be drunk, on crack, combative, threatening etc, the more people will start hating them. The sad thing is there are actual homeless people who are good people going through a hard time, but instead of protecting and supporting them, the city enables and protects all the crazy destructive crack heads instead.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Beautiful free Arizona
3,951 posts, read 2,243,985 times
Reputation: 5704
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
The more the city allows homeless to run free, commit crimes, cause public disturbances because they are allowed to be drunk, on crack, combative, threatening etc, the more people will start hating them. The sad thing is there are actual homeless people who are good people going through a hard time, but instead of protecting and supporting them, the city enables and protects all the crazy destructive crack heads instead.
Yep even more then the law abiding housed citizens. It’s one of the reasons I’m part of the exodus. The tax paying working stiffs are 3rd in Ca behind illegals and homeless. It’s infuriating
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
5,250 posts, read 6,786,237 times
Reputation: 4863
So leave. The poster above you did and seems super happy about it, so get going!
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Old 02-01-2020, 05:45 PM
 
Location: US
20,625 posts, read 20,216,794 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04kL4nD View Post
So leave. The poster above you did and seems super happy about it, so get going!

I agree and I say the same thing to people who complain about where I moved to... unless you have something really holding you down, you only live once, so if you aren't happy with the area you live, by all means change it... maybe you'll really like where you moved and if you don't, you can move back with a new found appreciation for it. It sounds like finper already has plans from the sound of it, "It’s one of the reasons I’m part of the exodus" and that's what I've been saying... people will either get so fed up that they will demand change or they will simply move out. I moved out and am very happy with my decision. Some people move out and regret it and end up moving back. It all depends.
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Old 02-02-2020, 08:26 AM
 
Location: On the water.
16,994 posts, read 9,568,676 times
Reputation: 14250
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgforshort View Post
No one is demonizing the homeless here, if anything they are often referred to as an endangered species worth caring for. This is Northern California, not the deep south.

Once again, our town, Paradise, is a conservative place with mostly older residents like myself. They don't demonize anybody, not the homeless, but they don't go out of their way to take care of them unless they have been victimized by the 2018 fire, which is an entirely different scenario.

Chico is completely different. Young, liberal, thousands of college students, all supporting the homeless, be it by attitude / compassion only or actual help with food, shelter, money.

The end result is that in Paradise we seldom hear of any misdemeanor committed by a homeless person. In Chico it happens all the time, and felonies, sexual assault, murder, rape, robbery, burglary are frequent.

Two different towns, different approach, bring entirely different outcome in the end.
For your claim to be meaningful, you need to provide verification that ”felonies, sexual assault, murder, rape, robbery, burglary” have been committed by local homeless and “are frequent“. Otherwise you are just contributing to the mythology about homeless as I described in the previous post you refer to.
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