If Marin is so liberal then why are there so many whites? (Daly City: living, statistics)
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I remember a leader in the 60;s who said,wherever you find a lot of liberals,there arent many or any Blacks..How True
That does hold some truth..
So if democrats typically experience little diversity, why are they the one's that usually tout it? (for example, affirmative action)
But then again city dwellers everywhere are typically democrat and they experience diversity daily.. is it because residing there requires an open mind? and an open mind is necessary for everyday exposure/ interaction? Yet, cities are still so segregated.
Is it because northern states are more educated?
But then why are the towns/cities with the best schools and most educated people in Florida and SoCal usually incredibly conservative(Naples, Boca Raton, Newport Beach, Thousand Oaks, Rancho Santa Fe, Boynton Beach)? I see no link to education and polical affiliation.
(*My take on this is exposure and mind-set. Like it's 100% possible for a Marin County ultraliberal to move to Orange County and become a hard-core conservative over time.) I know because it happened to me. (I had the ultraliberalism, coming from the Boston-area, before settling in OC. Boy, isn't it so funny how some things change!?)
Last edited by newportbeachsmostwanted; 04-25-2007 at 08:27 AM..
I remember a leader in the 60;s who said,wherever you find a lot of liberals,there arent many or any Blacks..How True
Who is the leader who said this? And what do you think s/he meant by the
statement. I ask because its meaning is open to interpretation and I wonder what you think this means and how this situation manifests itself in particular outcomes.
Who is the leader who said this? And what do you think s/he meant by the
statement. I ask because its meaning is open to interpretation and I wonder what you think this means and how this situation manifests itself in particular outcomes.
It sounds like a conservative arguing point from my POV. It's very similar to the reason why I started this thread. ...Anybody agree? or interpret it differently?
It sounds like a conservative arguing point from my POV. It's very similar to the reason why I started this thread. ...Anybody agree? or interpret it differently?
I asked what the person who posted the quote thought because I wondered how s/he interpreted it. Without knowing who made the statement and not being able to read/hear the entire quote in context in which it was spoken/written, its difficult for me to determine what the person who said it meant. From my perspective as an academic, context is everything insofar as determing meaning. The statement is something I could have easily said myself, but had I said it wouldn't have been coming from a conservative. The point of view would have been one of a African American professional woman and the meaning would have differed from your explanation.
But I still would like the person who posted the quote originally to weigh in with her/his interpretation.
I remember a leader in the 60's who said,wherever you find a lot of liberals,there arent many or any Blacks..How True
That sounds like it came from the late 60's (i.e. MLK or those who followed in his wake). Prior to 1966 the term “black liberal” was still used and “liberal” hadn't yet become a "bad" word for African Americans...
Quote:
Originally Posted by newportbeachsmostwanted
That does hold some truth...I see no link to education and polical affiliation.
The truth of this is far more complex than simple education or politics. It comes down from the historical battle between black and white liberal leaders who divided over the leadership of the Civil Rights movement. Look up the rise of the Black Power movement to learn more. In short, at this time, the term “liberal” became short-hand for “white liberal” and black liberals opted to redefine themselves outside of the term “liberal” -- mostly, simply becoming “African-American leaders”.
There is obviously nothing in the real definition of “liberal” that ties it to white culture in anyway. In fact, the African American community has historically always had an undeniable, rock-solid liberal core to it. Black liberal intellectuals and leaders -- from W.E.B. Du Bois right through to Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton Jr. today -- have all shared wide support from the African-American community.
What you might find, however, is black people not self-identifying themselves as “liberal” quite as easily as white people (as a white, I don't know this for sure – just speculation based upon the quote above and my knowledge of historical events) because of this historical association of “liberal” to “white liberalism.” To me, liberal black communities, unlike liberal white communities, do seem to simply define themselves as “democratic” rather than “liberal.” Does anyone else share that observation? Perhaps it may be a couple of more generations before the term “liberal” can be as freely accepted by the black community again.
Please understand that the person who started this thread is simply following instructions from the likes of the Fox News Channel and Rush Limbaugh, in their efforts to discredit all people who they would classify as Liberals. The idea is to first promote the false idea that all Liberals are supposed to adhere to a strict set of principals and secondly to identify these Liberals as hypocrits when they fail to live up to these externally assigned characteristics. As far I can tell, anyone who does NOT adhere to the following beliefs would probably be considered to be a Liberal by these people:
Incessant preocuppation with the defunding, discrediting and destruction of government entities with the ultimate purpose of reducing the tax and regulatory burdens on the wealthiest in society, even at the cost of leaving the vast majority of people with limited protections from social and environmental catastrophies (reduction of taxes and regulation, Katrina, lack of publicly funded health care).
Inflexible belief that your principals are the only "correct" moral stance and that any other position taken is akin to blasphemy. I.e., every issue has a "right" side and a "wrong" side and people who are not on my side are on the "wrong" side and therefore must be totally discredited and delegitimized (abortion, forced public prayers, banning of objectionable books and flag burning).
Belief that individuals with power and wealth should be free to behave in any manner that they feel to be appropriate without regard to the impact on others and without fear of any social or legal consequence (tort reform, free use of ephithets, Confederate flag waving, attacks on political correctness, Enron).
Belief that the only appropriate use of the nation's military and foreign policy apparatus is for the purpose of securing the expansion of economic opportunity and control over the entire world (Iraq, Panama, Vietnam, Cold War, globalization).
Belief that the only proper response to social misbehavior is to create an punitive environment that ignores underlying causes and severely punishes the so-called losers in society (death penalty, prison industrial complex, 3 strikes laws, mandatory minimums).
The bottom line is that these Conservatives tend ignore the fact that the group of people that they classify as Liberals are actually very diverse in their beliefs, thoughts and in the ways they approach life (unlike Conservatives themselves, who seem to be idealogically of one mind). Hence, a wealthy agnostic, environmentalist who lives in a non-diverse enclave in NoCal is grouped in the same category as a church-going (but not morally judgemental), tough on crime (but anti-death penalty), black Texan, such as myself.
Please understand that the person who started this thread is simply following instructions from the likes of the Fox News Channel and Rush Limbaugh, in their efforts to discredit all people who they would classify as Liberals.
Yeah, and I have a bridge for sale, you wanna buy it? While you and I might be liberally minded and differ strongly from conservatives on many issues, I don't see the benefit in generally assuming conservatives all as puppets of the conservative media. They have many very brilliant intellectuals among their ranks and I think even conservatives know Rush -- and throw Anne Coulter on that pile as well -- is not among them.
By pointing out that such a conspiracy is even possible among conservatives is to raise their media's credibility to the level of miracle worker. Has it ever occured to you that conservatives are not lead by their media, but it might be the other way around? Is it possible that Fox and Rush are merely catering to the conservative POV simply to gain ratings and market share in a highly competitive marketplace?
Frankly, I think liberals really need to leave the "conspiracy and secret agenda" bashing tools in the pockets of conservative morons who invented them in the first place.
Westport CT and Marin are very similar...lots of organic, Trader Joes, Whole Foods, yoga. But really...liberal is relative. I think Westport still looks at a black or hispanic thinking they are hired help. I'm not so sure its different in Marin.
You can't generalize about either a "conservative" or a "liberal". Just as you certainly can't generalize what is a Republican or Democrat. So complex. So many different kinds of Republicans or Democrats out there.
Church Republicans are completely different than Libertarian/economic Republicans. One wing tends to think/focus as a group while the other as an individual. One wing focuses on social control while the other is more concerned with economic freedoms. The Libertarian type tends to be more the suburban/self reliant type who just wants to be left alone. They can be quite liberal when it comes to individual social freedoms. They just don't want their taxes paying for it.
On the Democrat side, you have the group-think economic types who want to use government to control the "rich". Their cause is an economic one and they act similar to the church Republicans in that they want CONTROL placed on people. One group wants your wallet and the other group wants your soul. The economic/Democrat type likes to redistribution wealth so they can get a bigger slice of the pie. They view government as a tool to equalize people. They tend to be somewhat conservative on social freedoms. They like big government and control of business. Just the opposite of the Libertarian/economic Republicans who want small government and less control of business.
Also on the Democrat side are the progressive types who like to manage change or people. They tend to be quite liberal on social freedoms. They tend to be more successful economically. They have learned to use the Capitalist system to their advantage but they still have GROUP-leanings and want to give back some of their "guilt" money for the betterment of "society".
So you get to Marin County and Orange County. Polar opposites on the political surface. Both places are very nice with successful people and great communities. One area still has group-leanings (Marin) with a progressive undertone while the other has individual-leanings (Orange) with a libertarian undertone. One is still more focused on government (or group) and the other on the free-enterprise system (individual).
It's a mess out there people. So many different kinds of people. It's a minefield. Both parties may subscribe to the "big tent" theory but we are not all happy campers in either party... We have to take the good with the bad.
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