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Some of you guys are simply ridiculous. I'm a young male (22) and spend a good deal of my teenage life living in San Francisco's Fillmore and Sunnydale Neighborhoods. I'm familiar with urban culture, dress, etc. A lot of my friends wear clothing that can be associated with "thugs" (I mostly grew out of that). I won't blame for one minute a police officer who profiles someone wearing baggy jeans, a hoodie and a baseball cap. The fact is that a good portion of a cities violent crimes occur in areas where this style of dress is prominent, by people wearing these types of clothes. It's your choice whether you want to take the risk. As stated earlier, I can love the color red all I want but I'm taking a risk by wearing it around certain parts of the Mission. Being aware of this risk, I can blame no one but myself for being stupid enough to bring this type of association onto myself.
Thank you! This is just the way it is, and one can easily disassociate themselves from all this nonsense. No, no one should be treated like a criminal for how they dress. But don't blame the police for mistaking you for one when you dress like one, bottom line.
I never said the cops never do wrong and I didn't mean to imply that at all. There of course are cases of wrong doing by cops and its disgusting when that occurs b/c of the confidence and trust citizens place on our public safety officials. Some cities have gone through some pretty scary periods of widespread police corruption such as NYC, Miami, New Orleans, etc.
But I don't think its fair to generalize that most or all cops don't deserve respect for what they do b/c of the actions of a few bad cops. There have been cases corrupt Border Patrol officials smuggling in drugs and illegals but that doesn't man I am going to think all Border Patrol agents are corrupt and now don't want them to apprehend illegals and contra band from now on. I'm not even sure what you arguing for now. Are you saying cops shouldn't do their jobs? Shouldn't be aggressive in catching criminals? Exactly what are you saying cops should do? You seem to do a lot of complaining about cops but have not offered anything in response to all you complain about as far as I can tell.
For starters, it would be nice to see more of these so-called "good" cops actually summon the audacity to band together against the corrupt in their department. You wanna talk about bravery? It's not bravery when you stand idly by while you witness another cop clearly violating the rights of a powerless citizen. It's not bravery when you (actively or tacitly) lend your support to scum buckets like this one in Chicago (and promote him to detective no less). We have seen countless marches, rallies, and protests on the part of the community addressing its own issues as well as police brutality. We have seen the top cop of Philadelphia call on 10,000 black men to help clean up the streets in that city. Why not call on more cops to address issues that plague their image? Why not more of an emphasis on promoting a more strategic and cooperative approach to community policing instead of the same old hard-nosed, no holds barred, billy bad a$$ tactical approach that has only served to inflame tensions with the community? Maybe when more cops start "snitching" on their own will any meaningful steps be taken to substantially improve their overall image. Just as many in the Oakland community are in a sense of collective mourning for the OPD 4, why can't there be more of a sense of contrition and sympathy on the part of the police department when an innocent young man is injured or loses his life at the hands of one of their own? I don't want anarchy, just accountability - on both sides.
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You seem to be taking some all or nothing approach here. Yes I am blaming the community and "those people" for many of the things they complain about, not all of it but some of it. But that doesn't mean I think all cops are good and don't ever go too far and abuse their power.
Also communities generally aren't built as high crime ghetto's, they evolve into that. And who deserves most of the blame for that, cops or the community?
Actually the ghetto is the end result of a myriad of socioeconomic factors generally beyond the immediate control of the citizen who happens to have been born into it. It is the ghetto itself that creates the conditions for a culture of criminality to thrive, and is thus sustained in part by it, not the other way around.
I read he was on his cell phone with his uncle just looking for a parking space.
To play Devil's advocate for a second, if he was using a cell phone while driving (without a hands-free device), that would be reason enough to pull someone over... now that it's a law in CA, they can - but rarely do - enforce that. Just sayin'.
Thank you! This is just the way it is, and one can easily disassociate themselves from all this nonsense. No, no one should be treated like a criminal for how they dress. But don't blame the police for mistaking you for one when you dress like one, bottom line.
As much as I hate to agree, you are right about this. I am heavily tattooed, but they're only visible in certain outfits (short sleeves, low-back shirts, etc)... and I know, even here in San Francisco, that some people will judge me when they're showing. I just take it all in stride, even joke with people who are judgmental, and cover them when I don't feel like hearing it. I made the choice to get tattoos, so it would be rather silly to whine when they're noticed.
That being said, I certainly don't think anyone should be mistreated for their appearance... it's one thing to make a snap judgment, and another to act on that perception before learning if it's justified.
No one is suggesting cops or anyone else gun down innocent people. Where did you get that idea and when did this happen??
Nita
I "get the idea" from reality. I would give you links, but that would be redundant and I think you're smart enough to be able to dig up the info on your own. There are countless cases of cops engaging in unnecessary use of force on citizens in police departments across the country, unfortunately including deadly force.
Actually the ghetto is the end result of a myriad of socioeconomic factors generally beyond the immediate control of the citizen who happens to have been born into it. It is the ghetto itself that creates the conditions for a culture of criminality to thrive, and is thus sustained in part by it, not the other way around.
It's this exact attitude of passing the buck and not owning any responsibility for the conditions set in these neighborhoods that allowed them to deteriorate in the first place, and it is what is keeping them that way now. There is some truth to what you say, but keeping the communities safe begins at the parental level, and then the other issues factor in. There are good parents that succeed at keeping their children out of trouble even though they live in the ghetto.
Making excuses for why things are the way they are rather than taking ANY initiative to make a change (like helping to fix the property you live in instead of posting on the block with the homies) will get you nowhere. Accepting SOME responsibility instead of laying all the blame on the establishment and feeling entitled to have all this fixed for you is the only way things will improve.
My girlfriend's parents grew up in REAL poverty in the Philippines, without running water or electricity way back. Her dad grew up in a wooden shack with a tin roof that stood on stilts over water, and the inside of their bathroom was completely visible to the street they faced. He never felt entitled to anything, and only through hard work joined the US Navy and came over here, and after several years established himself and petitioned his wife to come here as a citizen. Do you think he would have ever gotten out of the Philippines and improved his life if he just sat there and blamed all his problems on his corrupt government?
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Originally Posted by MrSykes
For starters, it would be nice to see more of these so-called "good" cops actually summon the audacity to band together against the corrupt in their department. You wanna talk about bravery? It's not bravery when you stand idly by while you witness another cop clearly violating the rights of a powerless citizen. It's not bravery when you (actively or tacitly) lend your support to scum buckets like this one in Chicago (and promote him to detective no less). We have seen countless marches, rallies, and protests on the part of the community addressing its own issues as well as police brutality. We have seen the top cop of Philadelphia call on 10,000 black men to help clean up the streets in that city. Why not call on more cops to address issues that plague their image? Why not more of an emphasis on promoting a more strategic and cooperative approach to community policing instead of the same old hard-nosed, no holds barred, billy bad a$$ tactical approach that has only served to inflame tensions with the community? Maybe when more cops start "snitching" on their own will any meaningful steps be taken to substantially improve their overall image. Just as many in the Oakland community are in a sense of collective mourning for the OPD 4, why can't there be more of a sense of contrition and sympathy on the part of the police department when an innocent young man is injured or loses his life at the hands of one of their own? I don't want anarchy, just accountability - on both sides.
I do agree with much of what you say here. Corrupt cops need to be dealt with just as badly as corrupt civilians.
For starters, it would be nice to see more of these so-called "good" cops actually summon the audacity to band together against the corrupt in their department. You wanna talk about bravery? It's not bravery when you stand idly by while you witness another cop clearly violating the rights of a powerless citizen. It's not bravery when you (actively or tacitly) lend your support to scum buckets like this one in Chicago (and promote him to detective no less). We have seen countless marches, rallies, and protests on the part of the community addressing its own issues as well as police brutality. We have seen the top cop of Philadelphia call on 10,000 black men to help clean up the streets in that city. Why not call on more cops to address issues that plague their image? Why not more of an emphasis on promoting a more strategic and cooperative approach to community policing instead of the same old hard-nosed, no holds barred, billy bad a$$ tactical approach that has only served to inflame tensions with the community? Maybe when more cops start "snitching" on their own will any meaningful steps be taken to substantially improve their overall image. Just as many in the Oakland community are in a sense of collective mourning for the OPD 4, why can't there be more of a sense of contrition and sympathy on the part of the police department when an innocent young man is injured or loses his life at the hands of one of their own? I don't want anarchy, just accountability - on both sides.
I agree with this somewhat but I do not think it would be good for police morale and solidarity if they start turning on each other in the public eye like that. Not saying they should condone illegal actions by other cops and look the other way or anything like that but I can see why cops don't come out and talk crap about other cops to the press. Also just b/c other cops don't come out and talk to the press about the situation, which I would assume is against department policy to begin with, doesn't mean they don't think an illegal action by a fellow cop is alright or that they don't feel for the victim. I don't know whether they do or not but I don't make assumptions about that either like you are doing.
Also I think the social problems in inner cities is a helluva lot more prevalent and debilitating to the community than crooked cops. Your little examples here and there pales in comparison to what goes on in these communities every day.
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Actually the ghetto is the end result of a myriad of socioeconomic factors generally beyond the immediate control of the citizen who happens to have been born into it. It is the ghetto itself that creates the conditions for a culture of criminality to thrive, and is thus sustained in part by it, not the other way around.
Yes I am very aware of the whole "culture/cycle of poverty" and how it comes about. Living in a poor neighborhood with lots of poverty isn't an excuse for violence imo. Yes poverty contributes to a myriad of social problems but you can't just keep blaming the ghetto and outside forces for the constant violence in these areas.
Not all poor areas are violent either. Take a look at the city of Fresno with its 26% poverty rate then take a look at Oakland with its 20% poverty rate and compare the crime rates. Fresno is a MUCH SAFER city with much less crime than Oakland despite being even poorer. Poverty is NOT an excuse for violence.
You can only blame so many different people, groups, institutions, etc before you finally just need to suck it up and accept responsibility for your own actions and your community. I recognize and understand most all of the past problems and actions that have lead to the decline of many communities but its pathetic how some people keep using that as some excuse and a crutch for their lack of values and morals.
As much as I hate to agree, you are right about this. I am heavily tattooed, but they're only visible in certain outfits (short sleeves, low-back shirts, etc)... and I know, even here in San Francisco, that some people will judge me when they're showing. I just take it all in stride, even joke with people who are judgmental, and cover them when I don't feel like hearing it. I made the choice to get tattoos, so it would be rather silly to whine when they're noticed.
Definitely. You're aware of how the average person will react to your appearance, and you respond accordingly. That's just being sensible.
I have tattoos as well, but I made sure not to get any I couldn't cover up (like on my neck) b/c I always thought about my future.
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Originally Posted by gizmo980
That being said, I certainly don't think anyone should be mistreated for their appearance... it's one thing to make a snap judgment, and another to act on that perception before learning if it's justified.
I completely agree. Assumptions will be made naturally, but people should always confirm what they're assuming before acting on it. But at the same time, people can avoid a lot of unnecessary drama by taking in to account how they will likely be perceived based on appearance.
where did I say who is to blame for being prejudice? I said this is a natural thing, all of us have some prejudice..It is when we carry it to the extent of hate that it becomes damaging..
Nita
Fair enough, although I would submit that prejudice doesn't necessarily have to be carried to the extent of hate to be damaging - a simple misunderstanding or misinterpretation guided by prejudice can have equally tragic consequences.
Wow, way to sidestep the point and pretend you don't know what he was actually getting at, and the type of criminal he was referring to. Hood drug dealers and gangmembers are who he was referring to, not white-collar criminals or serial killers who look like anyone else or any other type of criminal who doesn't have a particular style of dress. Hood thugs do have a particular style of dress that varies from hood to hood. And you know this, so why not cut the crap?
Or you could take it further and try and discuss how soccer moms who talk on their cell phones while driving dress, or how drunk drivers dress, etc etc...Yes, we get it, there are other types of criminals. Yes, there are plenty of white criminals. You are correct. We are talking about a specific type of criminal who will attract negative attention from police, regardless of race, and not those that you've pointed out who dress in many various ways and do not fit into a particular profile. A white dude or an Asian dude can just as easily attract the same negative attention from the cops dressing and acting that way. I've known a pair just like that who got pulled over and harassed just passing through Hillsborough from 280, and since they didn't live there the cop messed with them. It happens.
Well, at least it's obvious you caught on to what I was getting at. There are plenty of criminals out there, and plenty of crimes committed, by all types of people. Just so happens that the random minority on the street dressed in a track suit chilling in front of the house with his dudes tends to be the most accessible to cops on the beat, which is why they target him. Doesn't make him any more criminally-inclined, though, than your average white fella in suburbia who doesn't dress like his inner-city counterpart, and who can probably count on never being harassed by any cop.
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