Why Does San Francisco Hate The Military? (Sacramento, Oakland: school, to live in)

[sailordave]

Perhaps some of you do support the US Military. However, how does your public school system (school administration and teachers) treat US Military recruiters when they come on campus? How does your area universities treat US Military recruiters when they're on campus? How many times has military recruiting stations in the Bay area been protested and vandalized? I've read the SFGate.com and it's replies to articles and letters. I know full well there is a sizable segment of your population that wants Fleet Week to forever go away and used remarks about their hatred at the sight of those murderers. But no one in the Bay area comes close to Berkeley in their hatred for the military. When elected city officials makes official statement that the US Marine Recruiting Station is an unwanted and unwelcomed intruder to their city and the city's mayor, an Ex-Army officer, joins the protestors in wanting the recruiting station out of his city, that's a lot more serious than some rowdy student protestors. I don't judge by words, I judge by the actions of your area.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

I'll stir the pot. There is certainly a load, vocal, substantial minority who hate the military. When I was a kid no one tried to get the Blue Angels banned during Fleet Week, and now? ...

[fizbin]

The Blue Angles thing is pretty much a red herring. The primary reason some folks object to them is based on the safety of running this kind of exhibition on top of a major metropolitan area.

[happ]

Originally Posted by sailordave

Perhaps some of you do support the US Military. However, how does your public school system (school administration and teachers) treat US Military recruiters when they come on campus? How does your area universities treat US Military recruiters when they're on campus? How many times has military recruiting stations in the Bay area been protested and vandalized? I've read the SFGate.com and it's replies to articles and letters. I know full well there is a sizable segment of your population that wants Fleet Week to forever go away and used remarks about their hatred at the sight of those murderers. But no one in the Bay area comes close to Berkeley in their hatred for the military. When elected city officials makes official statement that the US Marine Recruiting Station is an unwanted and unwelcomed intruder to their city and the city's mayor, an Ex-Army officer, joins the protestors in wanting the recruiting station out of his city, that's a lot more serious than some rowdy student protestors. I don't judge by words, I judge by the actions of your area.

The Bay Area is nothing like Louisiana, thank God. People in California tend to question the motives of a government willing to kill innocent Americans & Iraqis in a fool's war, so that makes them unpatriotic to a yokel from the South!

[majoun]

Originally Posted by happ

The Bay Area is nothing like Louisiana, thank God. People in California tend to question the motives of a government willing to kill innocent Americans & Iraqis in a fool's war, so that makes them unpatriotic to a yokel from the South!

So would that mean that if Obama were to speak in Berkeley there'd be people picketing him and the City Council would issue a condemnation of him for being a "warmonger"?

(Knowing Berkeley, it would not surprise me if they regarded the idea of Obama speaking in their town only slightly less repellent than Bush or Cheney speaking in their town. While SF has a surprising amount of moderates and moderate liberals despite its image, Berkeley really lives up to its image for radicalism.)

[happ]

Originally Posted by majoun

So would that mean that if Obama were to speak in Berkeley there'd be people picketing him and the City Council would issue a condemnation of him for being a "warmonger"?

(Knowing Berkeley, it would not surprise me if they regarded the idea of Obama speaking in their town only slightly less repellent than Bush or Cheney speaking in their town. While SF has a surprising amount of moderates and moderate liberals despite its image, Berkeley really lives up to its image for radicalism.)

That is a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion, Majoun. Berkeley & San Francisco have a sizable socialist constituency\ Green party but both cities voted overwhelmingly for Obama [because Leftists are pragmatic & find Obama a huge improvement over every president back to Franklin Roosevelt]. President Obama would be hailed a hero in Berkeley & crowds would line Telegraph Ave to just get a glimpse of him [same in San Francisco]. Much of the $ & volunteers helping the Obama campaign came from Berkeley.

The Peace movement started in the Bay Area during the Vietnam War & anger toward those who chose violence rather than reason makes many Americans quite unreceptive to war-mongers [and why Bush was burned in effigy all over the nation]. The moral & intelligent position of the residents of Berkeley is an example for other Americans to honor.

[D-Towner]

Originally Posted by happ

The Bay Area is nothing like Louisiana, thank God. People in California tend to question the motives of a government willing to kill innocent Americans & Iraqis in a fool's war, so that makes them unpatriotic to a yokel from the South!

Thankfully, few people take your hateful words seriously.

[BayDude]

Originally Posted by happ

The Bay Area is nothing like Louisiana, thank God. People in California tend to question the motives of a government willing to kill innocent Americans & Iraqis in a fool's war, so that makes them unpatriotic to a yokel from the South!

I'm sorry but that was a ridiculous generalized statement. What makes you think people in Louisiana don't ever at any point question the government?

This type of liberal ignorance is what I was referring to earlier. This supposed "enlightened" segment of the population that seems to be prone to making ignorant or uninformed generalizations of people they disagree with.

Doing things like saying the "marines are unwelcome intruders" or banning ROTC programs would definitely get you labeled as unpatriotic however, not just in the south but in most of America.

[Stacy From Cali]

There is nothing wrong with being labeled unpatriotic. Read some Emma Goldman.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by happ

That is a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion, Majoun.

Obama is the Commander in Chief of the US military and does support increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan and boosting the military budget. I think he would be extremely well recieved in San Francisco but in Berkeley there are a large number of people who look at anyone to the right of Dennis Kucinich as being a neocon. Percentage-wise, it's larger than SF.

Berkeley & San Francisco have a sizable socialist constituency\ Green party but both cities voted overwhelmingly for Obama [because Leftists are pragmatic & find Obama a huge improvement over every president back to Franklin Roosevelt].

This is true that he won Berkeley and SF overwhelmingly. He's a bright and charismatic man and one of the most intelligent leaders we've had, and I hope he can deal with the mess we're in now. Take into consideration the last Republican to win SF was Eisenhower, and that ANY Dem candidate will win SF and Alameda County.

President Obama would be hailed a hero in Berkeley & crowds would line Telegraph Ave to just get a glimpse of him

I would hope so. But there would be a group of far left miscreants who would protest him for the ongoing wars as being CoC of the Armed Services. Hopefully said group would be small.

Much of the $ & volunteers helping the Obama campaign came from Berkeley.

I am aware of this, but Berkeley has enough people on the far left wing of the Dems as well as Greens, socialists, and even some anarchists who would be disappointed that Obama the president has turned out to be more moderate than they thought. SF's number of leftist crazies is greatly overstated, Berkeley's isn't.

The Peace movement started in the Bay Area during the Vietnam War

True. UC Berkeley, to be exact. The Bay Area has a long history of social protest movements dating back to the 19th century.

The moral & intelligent position of the residents of Berkeley is an example for other Americans to honor.

They turned out to be right about Vietnam. However Berkeley does have a pretty out of control raging far leftism that may not be adhered to by the entire population but which is very apparent in that city;s politics. If one is going to disrespect the military in the way they do, it's only a short step towards disrespecting the military's commander in chief, even when he clearly is a better man than his predecessor. It is unfair to take out anger regarding US policy on the individual men and women of the military, or on disdaining the military as an institution and ignoring its role in the Bay Area's history. To paraphrase De Gaulle, the military is a reflection of the nation, and while the military leans more conservative than the US as a whole, there are more liberals in the military than many people believe, especially in positions requiring more education and training. SF's more leftish residents would probably be surprised that many Special Forces members are liberal enough to fit into SF quite well....