Is S.F. Really Worth The Cost? C'mon -- Really? (August: crime, how much)

[gizmo980]

Originally Posted by smarino

Here's my 2 cents, based upon living in frisco on and off from 1980 to 2000. The weather is not good, despite what you read on these posts. I remember one July when the sun came out ONCE the entire month. It is nearly always cold and windy, and fogged in half the time.

And that's exactly why I called this a relative question... because to me, no sun in July sounds like heaven! I'm a redhead with light blue eyes & fair skin, who burns after 10 minutes of sunshine - and that's why I LOVE the weather in SF. I've lived in a few other climates (Oregon's rain, Tahoe's snow, Stockton & Maryland's heat, etc.), and they had what I'd call bad weather. Also like "Milliano" said, we really don't get as much fog & cold as you think... especially if you're on the Peninsula or eastern parts of SF, like where I live (near Candlestick).

Nope, it isn't worth the money by a long shot, but S.F. has always had it's core group of starry eyed city boosters that are off in their own universe.

If I'm "off in my own universe" for liking where I live, so be it... don't we all want to be happy with our surroundings?? There are LOTS of places in the world I'd hate to live in, but I don't knock the people who like it there. To each his own, as I often say.

[nooneknowsmyname]

Not to repeat myself, but all of the comments pointing out the problems in the SF Bay area and the rebuttals expressing diverging or opposite points of view reinforce the point I have been making. Not all people agree on whether SF is worth the cost. Those who believe it isn't will give numerous examples to support their belief and those who think it is will argue against anyone who dares to raise anything negative about the SF Bay area. Unfortunately, there is a tendency on some of these threads to drown out any dissenting point of view.
In the end, the decision about whether SF is really worth the cost is strictly an individual one, again depending on what you want from living in a particular location.

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by nooneknowsmyname

Not to repeat myself, but all of the comments pointing out the problems in the SF Bay area and the rebuttals expressing diverging or opposite points of view reinforce the point I have been making. Not all people agree on whether SF is worth the cost. Those who believe it isn't will give numerous examples to support their belief and those who think it is will argue against anyone who dares to raise anything negative about the SF Bay area. Unfortunately, there is a tendency on some of these threads to drown out any dissenting point of view.
In the end, the decision about whether SF is really worth the cost is strictly an individual one, again depending on what you want from living in a particular location.

The question "is SF worth the cost" is indeed one that could be appropriately answered differently by everyone. But in this discussion, there are topics that aren't opinion oriented but fact oriented. Saying things like "crime is skyrocketing" or "its not sunny in July" is not opinion... it's a statement that can be shown with facts to either be false or reasonably plausible. I've engaged in discussion in this thread but hardly any, if any of my words had anything to do with trying to prove or disprove the idea that SF is/isn't worth the cost. Rather they're about details that can relate to the subject at hand.

[fizbin]

> Is S.F. Really Worth The Cost? C'mon -- Really?

No.

[rah]

Originally Posted by Milliano

Since when has crime gotten much worse? It has been fairly stable for at least the last decade. Crime can happen in any neighborhood in any city. This isn't unique to SF.

It actually has been getting worse. The violent crime rate, and the murder rate have been steadily climbing since 2000.

A few quick statistics to prove it:

-there were 58 murders in SF in all of 2002
-there were 72 in 2003.
-88 in 2004.
-96 in 2005.
-86 in 2006.
-so far, as of August 16th 2007, there have been 70 murders, 20 percent higher than at the same time last year.

-there were 81 gunshot victims treated at SF General Hospital in 2001.
-there were 228 gunshot victims treated there in 2006.

check out: San Francisco Crime

[nooneknowsmyname]

Originally Posted by Milliano

Saying things like "crime is skyrocketing" or "its not sunny in July" is not opinion... it's a statement that can be shown with facts to either be false or reasonably plausible.

The statement "crime is skyrocketing" or "it's not sunny in July" are statements formed as opinions because the form of the statement can't be verified. Giving the specific number of sunny days in this year or the number of sunny days in the month of July for the past several years are statements of fact because they can be verified. Giving the number of murders that took place in SF this year and for the 4-5 preceding years would be a statement of fact because that statement could be verified. However, if a person only gave the number of murders and didn't provide data on strong arm robberies, burglaries and other crimes, a person could still contest the opinion statement, "crime is skyrocketing" by saying that the data provided about murders were insufficient to establish the claim that crime was skyrocketing.
A lot of time my time is spent helping university students understand the difference between fact and opinion and what it takes to back up their opinions with sufficient facts so that they can form more convincing arguments.

[Lurker]

Originally Posted by Milliano

In reality, SF gets a lot of sun, and especially in July. It's less windy than average in the USA. It's not "cold" unless you consider 60F cold. 50s in January doesn't seem very cold to me.

Me either. Here on the east coast, the only nice times of year are fall and spring, and SF has that year-round. Hard to put a price on dozens of days per year of being out and active vs. being locked in due to scorching heat, frigid cold, blizzards, Noreasters and our recent (though unusual) tornado.

[rockx]

Shhhh everyone....It is definitely not worth it..horrible place to live...

/sarcasm

[jimj]

although I never lived in SF I spent a whole lot of time there and do miss it. The weather is an aquired taste, I forget which writer said "the coldest summer I ever spent was in SF" or something to that effect, and while it's not usually hot like a few miles north I enjoyed the fog rolling in and there is not much better than a crystal clear day while standing on the GG bridge or on the ferry. I miss the warf area and some of the Market st area. I don't miss the homeless all over and their smells though. Is it worth it? Hmmm, to some yes, and maybe if I made enough money.... no, I would still live outside the city and go visit. I do miss the stinking rose though!!!!!!

[Milliano]

Originally Posted by rah

It actually has been getting worse. The violent crime rate, and the murder rate have been steadily climbing since 2000.

A few quick statistics to prove it:

-there were 58 murders in SF in all of 2002
-there were 72 in 2003.
-88 in 2004.
-96 in 2005.
-86 in 2006.
-so far, as of August 16th 2007, there have been 70 murders, 20 percent higher than at the same time last year.

Murder is just one aspect of crime, and murders tend to be related to gangs, the drug trade, and disputes amongst people who know each other. It hardly applies to most of the city's population, and certainly not to a person who is moving there -- unless they're involved in gangs, drugs, or violent people -- and those types of people will experience violent crime regardless of where they're living. Despite the increase in murders, the rate still isn't very abnormal.

Violent crime in general has been stable, and is not much different from the national average. Compared to other large US cities... SF seems quite safe if anything. Keep in mind that cities such as NYC have incentive to and are known to falsify their crime statistics... unlike NYC, SF's murder rate (something harder to falsify than assault or rape) is similar to the violent crime rate. Crimes are more likely to be reported in SF as well because of the population density and location of poverty near downtown.