SF Court of Appeals says English-only tests in schools OK (Montclair: how much, home)

[18Montclair]

Court says English-only tests OK in schools

And this son of immgrants agrees.

Immersion is the only way to learn as far as Im concerned. Bilingual ed is a crutch.

[StarshipPoopers1]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Court says English-only tests OK in schools

And this son of immgrants agrees.

Immersion is the only way to learn as far as Im concerned. Bilingual ed is a crutch.

I think it makes perfect sense. Here in Canada bilingualism is forced on us everywhere because it's nationwide policy to include both English and French. It's annoying, but it's law. Both languages are official languages federally. My friend was fully fluent in both English and French and took French-language courses in University in Ottawa, and even then they are rare and it was only because it's the capital of the country and because Quebec is so near to Ottawa that he was able to. Otherwise it's pretty difficult, and we're an officially bilingual country.

But in the US where there isn't even an official language and English is de facto, there is no reason why people shouldn't be able to complete the courses. Furthermore, the sheer expense of offering tests in a multitude of languages, or even just English and Spanish, would be significant. If people are in the US to get an education yet can't even speak English well enough to understand the course content, why should they even be enrolled? Besides, they have to pass a basic English competency test to enroll do they not?

Advocacy groups are pretty foolish a lot of the time. It's not like this is discriminatory, it's just plain common sense.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers1

Here in Canada bilingualism is forced on us everywhere because it's nationwide policy to include both English and French. It's annoying, but it's law.

If it's forced on you then how come you (making an educated assumption here) and most other Canadians aren't bilingual?

[StarshipPoopers1]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If it's forced on you then how come you (making an educated assumption here) and most other Canadians aren't bilingual?

I never meant it's forced in education. I clearly said that most schools don't offer fully bilingual programs, and that they were a rarity. But every single product and everything official that the Government does is in both English and French. Most of Canada doesn't even speak French, especially not in my area yet it's federal policy to include it everywhere.

I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong with it, I just mean if we're an officially bilingual country and virtually all of our products and paperwork automatically come in both languages, yet it is considered too expensive to make all or even many of our schools bilingual, imagine how much it would cost the US to do something similar. I don't know to what extent US products incorporate Spanish into their labels and how much the Government translates, but I doubt it's comparable.

And yeah, obviously most of us aren't bilingual. In fact the only bilingual people that I have met were all from Quebec or had parents from there. The French education system here is hilarious. It's mandatory to take French from Grade 3 to Grade 9 (or at least it was like that over a decade ago, don't know if they changed that), and I learned absolutely nothing in that time, nor did the vast majority of my classmates. I can say my name, tell them how I am, say that I don't speak French, then say good bye. Anything more is beyond me.

But French is certainly pushed on the rest of the country just to satisfy Quebec. We bend over backwards for them.

[MissNM]

My Spanish speaking coworkers from Venezuela and Cuba agree that immersion is the best way to learn the language.

They also believe it is critical that the native language be spoken at home to hold on to cultural ties.

Having travelled a bit - I discovered that I was forced to learn a new language only when the people around me stopped speaking English.

[City Boy]

The Idea that we even have this option is ridiculous. All the language ATM options etc. I mean cmon.

[Shope]

Press 1 for English.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by MissNM

My Spanish speaking coworkers from Venezuela and Cuba agree that immersion is the best way to learn the language.

They also believe it is critical that the native language be spoken at home to hold on to cultural ties.

Having travelled a bit - I discovered that I was forced to learn a new language only when the people around me stopped speaking English.

I can see holding onto their ties as long as they intend to soon go back. If they mean to live here always, they should put the interest of their children first and prepare them properly for school here. There's a reason the hispanic drop out rate is so incredibly high even in this day and age.

[Parti Rhinocéros]

Originally Posted by malamute

I can see holding onto their ties as long as they intend to soon go back. If they mean to live here always, they should put the interest of their children first and prepare them properly for school here

Disagree on just about every level.

a) Cultural ties have nothing to do with country. Even if they're not going back to the native land, the native language and culture will always be an important part in their lives - both themselves and their children.

b) Kids are fully capable of learning both languages, and many more than that, when pushed. In fact, the ability for children to learn language helps them out in so many different facets of life.

There's no reason to be exclusively English, and in fact, I argue that it is a major detriment in education.

I think the biggest problem that many families face, just like many American families, is that not enough time is dedicated to education and learning. Enough time isn't spent on English or the native language. Laziness/ignorance isn't simply limited to Americans who eat 4,000 calories a day and let their televisions raise their children - non-English and English families alike need to spend more time educating their children.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by StarshipPoopers1

I never meant it's forced in education. I clearly said that most schools don't offer fully bilingual programs, and that they were a rarity. But every single product and everything official that the Government does is in both English and French. Most of Canada doesn't even speak French, especially not in my area yet it's federal policy to include it everywhere.

I wasn't saying that there was anything wrong with it, I just mean if we're an officially bilingual country and virtually all of our products and paperwork automatically come in both languages, yet it is considered too expensive to make all or even many of our schools bilingual, imagine how much it would cost the US to do something similar. I don't know to what extent US products incorporate Spanish into their labels and how much the Government translates, but I doubt it's comparable.

Many products in the US have labels in Spanish and French as well as English because of NAFTA.

Not sure about the Feds, but California translates materials into Spanish, Chinese (both Mandarin and Cantonese), Korean, Vietnamese, Armenian, Farsi, Russian, Tagalog, Thai, and I think a couple of South Asian languages as well. The state used to translate into Portuguese as well but they dropped that a few years ago. (The state could save money by dropping a few of those languages that it translates into.)

Wasn't there some proposal in Oregon for state government to translate materials into Klingon?