San Francisco or Las Vegas - What would you do? (Sunnyvale: to buy, university)
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5 days of vacation is really unheard of, most companies will give you 2 weeks vacation as a standard, and maybe 1 week sick time. If those are hard facts and vacation days are important, then I would go for the Mt. View job. But if things were equal, Las Vegas will be a better financial choice + all your relatives will want to visit you :-)
I briefly worked a Machinist Union Job and 5 paid vacation days was it for the first 5 years and this was in San Leandro CA... They also had 6 paid holidays in addition...
Even working in Health-care where they cut back on benefited positions... 10 paid vacation days and 7 paid holidays is what it offered...
I'm running into a lot of 20 somethings that don't have any paid vacation days...
In Austria... the lowest Stock Boy starting out gets 5 weeks paid vacation... and it is similar in Germany...
The SF job has the ability to become a 90k a year job within 6 months, the intention of the role is for me to gain an understanding of the company database and then move into project management.
Our lifestyle is modest enough really, we go out to dinner once a week - go to a bar for 1 or 2 drinks three times a week, we like to eat organic and spend our free time outdoors - parks, beach, mountains etc..
Let me throw one more variable into the discussion which I have just found out. The Las Vegas comes with 5 days vacation a year (to a European is just barbaric!) where as the SF job comes with 20 days and now stock options as well.
Off the point, but some observations from a European moving over:
Tax seems very low in the US - around 16k per year in SF, 12k in LV - compared with almost 50% that I pay now, cars are 60 - 70% cheaper to purchase than in Ireland, food looks to be absurdly priced - a four pack of Tropicana in CostCo costs $5, in Ireland a single pack of Tropicana is $7. Every-time I come to the US on vacation I am suspicious of the restaurants because you can get a decent main course in a nice place for less than $20 - $40 over here.
This point, to me, and I may be completely wrong here as I have only a few casual discussions to base this on, it seems in the states you get to keep much more of your salary after tax and then that salary goes a LOT further when you spend it?
I just don't know how you do the 5 days vacation thing though....
Ireland is (or has been more expensive). I remember the 5euro Tropicana! (here you will get twice as much for half as much!).
Food is cheaper here..you can dine in an exceptional place for 100-150$ with wine! Ireland--well, pretty mediocre food for double that! The standards are just not as high there yet they charge like it's a gourmet, 4 star Michelin rated meal. It's definitely better here for food. I couldn't get over the 1.50eu for ONE freakin' scallop in Supervalu! Ireland is an island and you pay so dearly for seafood! Anyway, enough of my rant.
As for vacation time..you won't find a good work/life balance here. If you call in sick or take time off or even telecommute--it's noticed. Even if the company touts "excellent work/life balance". Next round of layoffs and you were the guy that didn't drive an hour in every day--well, you'll be the one laid off when the economy turns sour. That's the harsh fact here.
Oh, now I don't know what/if you will miss if you leave Ireland but I certainly miss France, Spain, etc when the weather sucks and those years when Spring never really brought on Summer. California weather is great, but it's not like jetting off to France for a few days for cheap on Ryanair. When in California, you will likely stay in California for your travel options..it's not cheap here to travel.
I know plenty of Irish that made their money, excelled in their careers..and are now back home with family (particularly during the boom). Coming over might be the best thing for you, or the worse thing for you..it all depends on your experiences/ties to family/ties to friends/dislike of the work/money oriented culture. The social differences are not anywhere like back home- that's going to be a huge culture shock (that you may or may not like) imo. It's one of the big things I miss about Ireland, actually. You will not find it here.
I'm not trying to turn you off at all--just posing a few tidbits that you might not take into account when making a decision. Good luck! (ps, my husband and I still go back and forth as to where we want to "settle"--this debate has been going on now for 15yrs!)
The social differences are not anywhere like back home- that's going to be a huge culture shock (that you may or may not like) imo. It's one of the big things I miss about Ireland, actually. You will not find it here.
Thanks for that, interesting - what do you find the biggest differences in terms of culture / what do you miss most about Irish culture just out of interest?
Thanks for that, interesting - what do you find the biggest differences in terms of culture / what do you miss most about Irish culture just out of interest?
How long have you been over in SF for?
Take my word - I'm half Danish and have grown up both in the US and Northern Europe, and I can assure you as a European you will not be happy in Las Vegas. You have no idea what you're getting yourself into by living there. The traffic in LV is just as bad as SF, but the difference is there is no adequate public transportation to speak of. In addition, the city is a magnet for the scuzziest people in America...I am not getting you when I say this. There's a serious lack of solidarity in the culture of LV - people use it as a pad to make a lot of money and then get the hell out. It's not pretty off the strip, and you being used to compact European cities, it's going to seem like one big plastic, very seedy city. If you have kids, it's an even worse place to expose them to - girls grow up fast there, and there's a hell of a lot of drugs. Take it from me, I have family that live there and regret ever raising children there.
I can promise you, that while life in California might cost more, you will get so much out of it. While in LV you have the fun of the strip, there's no where else to really go besides monotonous chains and malls...it's a completely suburbanized city dominated by the car. Being in the Bay Area you will have access to probably the most progressive and culturally rich/diverse region in the country after New York City. You have the ocean, nature, and urban life always within miles of eachother. SF is extremely walkable and has tons of things to offer, from interesting unique neighborhoods and attractions, and in addition, each region of the Bay Area has a different vibe to it. East Bay has a lot of cool places to explore too. To shorten my point, the Bay Area offers so much more in terms of quality of life (and the people in the Bay Area are also some of the most educated and sophisticated in the US).
Las Vegas is a great place to travel to for the weekend no doubt. It's inexpensive, it's fun, it's a party place. But one place it's not, is a liveable, interesting city. Once you get off the strip it becomes a grim, very cookie-cutter place. There's a lot of seediness to it that drives many European visitors after awhile off the wall. It's one thing to have strip clubs here and there, but on nearly every boulevard you drive on (as well as having slot machines in supermarkets, gas stations, and convienience stores) it gets old. Not only that, but gravel instead of grass in many housing communities becomes quite an eyesore. You being from green, lush Ireland might be a little bit taken aback when you see the kind of bleak landscape LV offers. The Bay Area is very beautiful and lush, with dramatic coastline to farmlands, to rolling grassy hills and clusters of forests.
I promise you...honestly...the Bay Area is probably better suited for you. City Data forums are full of people who are broke and desperate, but you have a job...and for your first time settling down in the US, I think you should be in a more realistic enviornment.
The two cities are so different but they both have unique living styles.
To live in San Francisco in a comfortable style you would need a six digit salary (high end) to support the housing, food costs and state taxes. More than likely you would have to live outside of the city and become a commuter. However, the positive does outway the negative. I don't know of one person who wouldn't love to live across the bay close to Sausalito or Tiberon.
Las Vegas has no state taxes because it is in Nevada. Housing is very affordable, the night life is unbelievable and food costs are reasonable. It's extremely hot there being in the desert but everyone has swimming pools and air conditioners.
If it is about the salary, accept the position in Las Vegas and fly to San Francisco for a vacation.
Thanks for that, interesting - what do you find the biggest differences in terms of culture / what do you miss most about Irish culture just out of interest?
How long have you been over in SF for?
I miss the people and the community feel of Ireland. It's very difficult to make friends here in the US (particularly California- and I'm a native). It's just not a laid back society and that's just a big cultural difference. Americans want to appear successful, wealthy, healthy, independent etc. even if their lives suck!
People are generally flaky here and tend to be incredibly opinionated (I'm probably included in this at times, unfortunately). People here will not hesitate to tell you what they think about your choices or where they stand. The Irish as you know will generally keep their opinions to themselves . They might slag you, but all in jest. Bumper stickers are huge here--everyone tells you what they think! In Ireland as you know, you'll generally only see the GAA flags displayed during a match.
My Irish husband finds that he's the only one to make his weekly social calls to his American friends here and they generally flake, or seem far too busy with work, appointments, family, for a pint. Socializing seems secondary or even tertiary priority. Whereas in Ireland, our friends and even neighbors would stop in for a cuppa..without an appointment or agenda. They made an effort to keep in touch and still do. All of our real friends are back in Ireland.
That being said, everything else is really great about the City/and the Bay area in general. My advice would be to seek out other Irish if you come over (whether here or in Vegas) you'll miss being around them! Also to note, San Francisco has become a very transient place ..very few people stick around for long so very few people are actually invested in caring about it long term, (less so outside of the City). OMG--Sorry about the length!
Take my word - I'm half Danish and have grown up both in the US and Northern Europe, and I can assure you as a European you will not be happy in Las Vegas. You have no idea what you're getting yourself into by living there. The traffic in LV is just as bad as SF, but the difference is there is no adequate public transportation to speak of. In addition, the city is a magnet for the scuzziest people in America...I am not getting you when I say this. There's a serious lack of solidarity in the culture of LV - people use it as a pad to make a lot of money and then get the hell out. It's not pretty off the strip, and you being used to compact European cities, it's going to seem like one big plastic, very seedy city. If you have kids, it's an even worse place to expose them to - girls grow up fast there, and there's a hell of a lot of drugs. Take it from me, I have family that live there and regret ever raising children there.
I can promise you, that while life in California might cost more, you will get so much out of it. While in LV you have the fun of the strip, there's no where else to really go besides monotonous chains and malls...it's a completely suburbanized city dominated by the car. Being in the Bay Area you will have access to probably the most progressive and culturally rich/diverse region in the country after New York City. You have the ocean, nature, and urban life always within miles of eachother. SF is extremely walkable and has tons of things to offer, from interesting unique neighborhoods and attractions, and in addition, each region of the Bay Area has a different vibe to it. East Bay has a lot of cool places to explore too. To shorten my point, the Bay Area offers so much more in terms of quality of life (and the people in the Bay Area are also some of the most educated and sophisticated in the US).
Las Vegas is a great place to travel to for the weekend no doubt. It's inexpensive, it's fun, it's a party place. But one place it's not, is a liveable, interesting city. Once you get off the strip it becomes a grim, very cookie-cutter place. There's a lot of seediness to it that drives many European visitors after awhile off the wall. It's one thing to have strip clubs here and there, but on nearly every boulevard you drive on (as well as having slot machines in supermarkets, gas stations, and convienience stores) it gets old. Not only that, but gravel instead of grass in many housing communities becomes quite an eyesore. You being from green, lush Ireland might be a little bit taken aback when you see the kind of bleak landscape LV offers. The Bay Area is very beautiful and lush, with dramatic coastline to farmlands, to rolling grassy hills and clusters of forests.
I promise you...honestly...the Bay Area is probably better suited for you. City Data forums are full of people who are broke and desperate, but you have a job...and for your first time settling down in the US, I think you should be in a more realistic enviornment.
More unmitigated nonsense. Living in Mountain View and Living in Summerlin are virtually identical experience. You give points to MV for climate and to LV for cost.
LV easily exceeds anything on the peninsula for food, entertainment and has very similar demographics in similar neighborhoods.
The Bay area snobs simply don't deal well with anywhere not in the Bay area.
That is if you want to be dining in monolithic resorts on the Strip every night - where yes, the restaurants can be fabulous, but do you really want to feel like a tourist everytime you eat out, dealing with loud, cheezy toursits in your way wherever you go?.
Other than the great restaurants/nightlife on the strip (and I mean JUST the strip) it's going to be a hard choice between TGIFriday's or Chili's. Fried macaroni n' cheeze balls vs. Quesadillas.
Similar demographics has nothing to do with how it looks. You could have a very diverse area of LV ethnicity wise, but there's a big difference if you can only see these diverse people in the safe comfort of their SUV's, their faces subtely masked by tinted-windows. Let's get real here - there's no walkable, safe, interesting/ecclectic neighborhood that matches the standard of a European or Urban American city. It simply doesn't have it.
There's a reason why the SF area is expensive and LV is cheap. If LV was so amazing and desirable, it'd be one of the most coveted and expensive regions in the US. People don't just move to SF to move there. They move there for the diversity, the climate, the urbanity, the open-mindedness and charm of its cities.
Take my word - I'm half Danish and have grown up both in the US and Northern Europe, and I can assure you as a European you will not be happy in Las Vegas. You have no idea what you're getting yourself into by living there. The traffic in LV is just as bad as SF, but the difference is there is no adequate public transportation to speak of. In addition, the city is a magnet for the scuzziest people in America...I am not getting you when I say this. There's a serious lack of solidarity in the culture of LV - people use it as a pad to make a lot of money and then get the hell out. It's not pretty off the strip, and you being used to compact European cities, it's going to seem like one big plastic, very seedy city. If you have kids, it's an even worse place to expose them to - girls grow up fast there, and there's a hell of a lot of drugs. Take it from me, I have family that live there and regret ever raising children there.
I can promise you, that while life in California might cost more, you will get so much out of it. While in LV you have the fun of the strip, there's no where else to really go besides monotonous chains and malls...it's a completely suburbanized city dominated by the car. Being in the Bay Area you will have access to probably the most progressive and culturally rich/diverse region in the country after New York City. You have the ocean, nature, and urban life always within miles of eachother. SF is extremely walkable and has tons of things to offer, from interesting unique neighborhoods and attractions, and in addition, each region of the Bay Area has a different vibe to it. East Bay has a lot of cool places to explore too. To shorten my point, the Bay Area offers so much more in terms of quality of life (and the people in the Bay Area are also some of the most educated and sophisticated in the US).
Las Vegas is a great place to travel to for the weekend no doubt. It's inexpensive, it's fun, it's a party place. But one place it's not, is a liveable, interesting city. Once you get off the strip it becomes a grim, very cookie-cutter place. There's a lot of seediness to it that drives many European visitors after awhile off the wall. It's one thing to have strip clubs here and there, but on nearly every boulevard you drive on (as well as having slot machines in supermarkets, gas stations, and convienience stores) it gets old. Not only that, but gravel instead of grass in many housing communities becomes quite an eyesore. You being from green, lush Ireland might be a little bit taken aback when you see the kind of bleak landscape LV offers. The Bay Area is very beautiful and lush, with dramatic coastline to farmlands, to rolling grassy hills and clusters of forests.
I promise you...honestly...the Bay Area is probably better suited for you. City Data forums are full of people who are broke and desperate, but you have a job...and for your first time settling down in the US, I think you should be in a more realistic enviornment.
Have you actually ever LIVED in either LV or the Bay Area?
That is if you want to be dining in monolithic resorts on the Strip every night - where yes, the restaurants can be fabulous, but do you really want to feel like a tourist everytime you eat out, dealing with loud, cheezy toursits in your way wherever you go?.
Other than the great restaurants/nightlife on the strip (and I mean JUST the strip) it's going to be a hard choice between TGIFriday's or Chili's. Fried macaroni n' cheeze balls vs. Quesadillas.
Similar demographics has nothing to do with how it looks. You could have a very diverse area of LV ethnicity wise, but there's a big difference if you can only see these diverse people in the safe comfort of their SUV's, their faces subtely masked by tinted-windows. Let's get real here - there's no walkable, safe, interesting/ecclectic neighborhood that matches the standard of a European or Urban American city. It simply doesn't have it.
There's a reason why the SF area is expensive and LV is cheap. If LV was so amazing and desirable, it'd be one of the most coveted and expensive regions in the US. People don't just move to SF to move there. They move there for the diversity, the climate, the urbanity, the open-mindedness and charm of its cities.
You don't listen. SF is not going to work it is simply too expensive for $78K based in Mountain View.
MV and LV are very similar.
The cuisine of Las Vegas outside the strip is reasonably good. At least as good as MV and you can, on occassion hit the strip if you really want to spend $400 for dinner.
There are at least 10 restaurants within 10 minutes of me that are worth repeated visits. Some are local chains and at least one is a national chain but all provide a nice meal at a reasonable price. Two would be top ten anywhere except for a town with the strip.
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San Francisco or Las Vegas
