SF looks to bag paper, not just plastic (San Francisco, Richmond: living in, costs)

[bipolarpunk]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Anyone who thinks a plastic bag is free must be mentally deficient. They are part of a store's overhead and so that cost will always be passed on to the consumer. That's simple business.

If Plastic Bags are banned, then the Cost of Groceries/goods should go down as well? Umm.. didn't think so..

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Back when I was a young Green (and "green") radical, in college, thumping "Ecotopia" the way some thump the Bible, someone told me that environmentalism was the road to Nazism. At the time, I thought he was just a typical Right winger from the So Cal burbs, and scoffed at such an assertion.

Guess what?

He was 100% correct.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Back when I was a young Green (and "green") radical, in college, thumping "Ecotopia" the way some thump the Bible, someone told me that environmentalism was the road to Nazism. At the time, I thought he was just a typical Right winger from the So Cal burbs, and scoffed at such an assertion.

Guess what?

He was 100% correct.

Unfortunately...

I too was a significant "green" supporter, until I kind of figured out that there was a lot more to their agenda than just "saving the planet". For many, it turned into their income source.

I can understand the plastic bags issue, but don't agree with not using paper bags (mostly recycled). With the significant slowdown in construction, tree usage ain't a big problem.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by bipolarpunk

If Plastic Bags are banned, then the Cost of Groceries/goods should go down as well? Umm.. didn't think so..

Tell us more about the future since you can see it so clearly.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

Unfortunately...

I too was a significant "green" supporter, until I kind of figured out that there was a lot more to their agenda than just "saving the planet". For many, it turned into their income source.

I can understand the plastic bags issue, but don't agree with not using paper bags (mostly recycled). With the significant slowdown in construction, tree usage ain't a big problem.

Even if not from recycled paper, the domestic pulp industry is focussed on tree farms in the Deep South, which is carbon neutral or in some cases even net negative. So even if one takes the carbon footprint route, it's a win - win for the environment (assuming of course it's even desirable in the long term to send ppmvCO2 below 350 but that is a geoengineering discussion for another day).

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Back when I was a young Green (and "green") radical, in college, thumping "Ecotopia" the way some thump the Bible, someone told me that environmentalism was the road to Nazism. At the time, I thought he was just a typical Right winger from the So Cal burbs, and scoffed at such an assertion.

Guess what?

He was 100% correct.

Thanks for sharing.

One of the satisfying things about getting older is the "light bulbs" that go on in your head year by year as greater experience expands your understanding of how the world works and why so much is not as it first appears.

My hunch is that most of these eco-fanatics are very young and that they, too, will see the a much bigger picture and the light of common sense somewhere many years down the road.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

My hunch is that most of these eco-fanatics are very young and that they, too, will see the a much bigger picture and the light of common sense somewhere many years down the road.

Well, in my case, I am not an "eco-fanatic". Not by a long shot.

And as for age - I'm well to the "right" of 60 - if I had not opted out of Social Security and Medicare - I could get it.

[clongirl]

Originally Posted by CrownVic95

Thanks for sharing.

One of the satisfying things about getting older is the "light bulbs" that go on in your head year by year as greater experience expands your understanding of how the world works and why so much is not as it first appears.

My hunch is that most of these eco-fanatics are very young and that they, too, will see the a much bigger picture and the light of common sense somewhere many years down the road.

Yeah, I got plenty of "light bulbs" as I've aged, but mine are from a place of actual experience and knowledge...experiencing another continent. Not crotchety , old "I'm set in my small town/old fashioned/anti-this or that ways of thinking". No, you don't know more than me. I know, that's so elitist of me.. I've actually had to endure the reality of the WORLD rather than a limited existence in small town Idaho.

Oh, I won't be thinking like you anytime in my life.. You have failed to peg me, old fool. (I'm not young, or a dink, or an eco-terrorist).

Even all FOUR of my kids ( we hardly fall into your little mindset) would laugh at your ancient way of thought..they know that water from a plastic bottle is far more permanent, destructive and not any better for you than just turning on the tap with a glass underneath. They've seen how polluted the countryside looks when bags are choking the waterways/streams where their dad would take them fishing.

Shoot, if people like me still thought in the past like you, lead would still be in gasoline/paint. Asbestos would still be the "best material ever" and polio would still ravage the population. Children would stand (I have personal experience here) in the front seat of cars, and we'd still be smoking in the workplace and dying of lung cancer without any knowledge of "why".

I already mentioned this whole topic from an actual perspective of EXPERIENCE. The country I lived in was the first in the world to ban the use of plastic bags (not actually banned, but a small fee to purchase). And here you are with your mentally retarded way of thinking, trying to spew some old fashioned rhetoric about the "good 'ol days" when everything was made from plastic and the trash fairy just made it all disappear.

No, we are Americans and we can't possibly follow in the footsteps of Bangladesh, China, Uganda, the city of Mumbai, South Africa or most of Europe..

No, that sort of thing would make America/ and Americans seem dumb or weak to you. (which is how we are actually perceived anyway). But not one of you doubters would actually spend any time thinking about the impact of the seemingly simple plastic bag. Simple research/photos/elementary thoughts on the matter..other than "hey, I'm an freakin' American and I can do whatever I want".

Oh, that would be too much effort or considered scaremongering from biased sources (BBC or National Geographic or __) or the American paranoia about government control, (rather than just pure common sense on the matter). Sheesh. So CrownVic95 - Don't tell me about getting older...I'm there and I'm smarter/wiser/ and less selfish for being so.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by clongirl

Yeah, I got plenty of "light bulbs" as I've aged, but mine are from a place of actual experience and knowledge...experiencing another continent. Not crotchety , old "I'm set in my small town/old fashioned/anti-this or that ways of thinking". No, you don't know more than me. I know, that's so elitist of me.. I've actually had to endure the reality of the WORLD rather than a limited existence in small town Idaho.

Oh, I won't be thinking like you anytime in my life.. You have failed to peg me, old fool. (I'm not young, or a dink, or an eco-terrorist).

Even all FOUR of my kids ( we hardly fall into your little mindset) would laugh at your ancient way of thought..they know that water from a plastic bottle is far more permanent, destructive and not any better for you than just turning on the tap with a glass underneath. They've seen how polluted the countryside looks when bags are choking the waterways/streams where their dad would take them fishing.

Shoot, if people like me still thought in the past like you, lead would still be in gasoline/paint. Asbestos would still be the "best material ever" and polio would still ravage the population. Children would stand (I have personal experience here) in the front seat of cars, and we'd still be smoking in the workplace and dying of lung cancer without any knowledge of "why".

I already mentioned this whole topic from an actual perspective of EXPERIENCE. The country I lived in was the first in the world to ban the use of plastic bags (not actually banned, but a small fee to purchase). And here you are with your mentally retarded way of thinking, trying to spew some old fashioned rhetoric about the "good 'ol days" when everything was made from plastic and the trash fairy just made it all disappear.

No, we are Americans and we can't possibly follow in the footsteps of Bangladesh, China, Uganda, the city of Mumbai, South Africa or most of Europe..

No, that sort of thing would make America/ and Americans seem dumb or weak to you. (which is how we are actually perceived anyway). But not one of you doubters would actually spend any time thinking about the impact of the seemingly simple plastic bag. Simple research/photos/elementary thoughts on the matter..other than "hey, I'm an freakin' American and I can do whatever I want".

Oh, that would be too much effort or considered scaremongering from biased sources (BBC or National Geographic or __) or the American paranoia about government control, (rather than just pure common sense on the matter). Sheesh. So CrownVic95 - Don't tell me about getting older...I'm there and I'm smarter/wiser/ and less selfish for being so.

Some people remain very childish regardless of the years they advance. Your continued name calling coupled with your leftist extremism gives you a "charm" that was unknown to me before coming out to this Bay Area.

Fair warning, guys - come to the Bay Area and you'll deal with clones of this woman every day until you escape.

To my ignore list you go - by acclamation.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

I've also lived abroad.

If one lives in an older more urbanized section in Europe, where there are stores close to home, and has limited space, the Euro way of shopping works well.

But even there, if you are more in the burbs and need to buy more stuff, the "American way" is actually superior.

As for bags choking streams, well, certainly, the chanellized urban ones in the big city are like that, but the small streams I pull trout out of are certainly not.

How about a compromise, do something like CRV. Everyone will be happy. Those who want the money will be happy to recover and return bags. I will be happy (assuming the CRV is not too high) to avoid having to buy "purpose designed" trash bags.