Oakland now has 100 murders this year (San Francisco, Orange: bankrupt, community college, food)

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

I'm not understanding why you see Oakland differently than other bigger cities; how is LA any different? SF? Portland? NY? Seattle? Washington DC? Miami? Chicago? Don't tell me that you're going to say that all of those cities are ****holes

You can't compare Oakland to those cities. L.A is considered an Alpha"-" city based on the Globalization and World Cities Study Group and Network classification. NY is an Alpha++ and S.F is a Beta+. Oakland is not even ranked.

Oakland when it comes down to it doesn't have the cultural or global significance to be compared to true world cities like LA or NYC. Those cities are centers of cultural development, and important node points in this new era of global interdependence. They experience far more economic and social pressures than cities like Oakland do, so it's excusable for them to sometimes suffer erratic changes in crime rate, and economic well being.

Oakland on the other hand has been crime ridden, and economically poor for a very long time, and that cannot be explained by global factors, they are purely localized.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

If you could post pictures of "crime infested ghetto" parts of Newport, you would. Don't kid yourself.

This is because those kinds of areas don't exist there.

Newport Beach is a one-dimensional, majority white, upscale suburb.

Oakland has several areas that are majority white, and upscale suburban in nature.

But it also has ghettos with crime.

In other words, Oakland is not one-dimensional.

1) Oakland is socially and financially divided. Wealth isn't diffuse. This explains the social turmoil experienced in Oakland. A lot of you are saying "all this crime is isolated to one half of the city" (the "flat lands" as you all called it) as if that excuses the 100+ homicides/year and the high crime rate in the city. Many of you think the city is still a great place to live notwithstanding the social division. That's shameful, and any social psychologist will tell you that Oakland is simply not a healthy metropolitan based on that fact alone.

2) Many here acknowledge the crime and poor, but then go on and say "We avoid the poor, crime filled areas, and visit the nicer places like Fruitvale. The hills have great $1,000,000 homes!" Avoidance and isolation are not signs of a healthy city as well.

3) Some here have said, "It's only the drug dealers and gang guys getting killed mostly." That's simply not true, a lot of innocent people get killed. Read the stories of some of the victims; wife shot by husband, child hit in drive-by, and that's just from 2007. I'm sure 2008, and 2009 have stories of innocent people too. The point being, Oakland residents are desensitized to what's happening only minutes away from them, and have conveniently used "it's only bad people dying" as their excuse. When people simply don't care, that's when everything is lost.

Ironic that you would talk to us about Financial Health when it was Orange County that actually FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY.

I didn't come here to bash Oakland

As if you could. Oakland is still an awesome place to live whether you think it is or not.

but after reading some of the responses here, I'm glad I did expose some truths to those living there about their city. It's unhealthy, and dying.

The only dying is people gagging over themselves watching the Real Housewives of Orange County.

If that show is a microcosm of life in what you consider to be a 'healthy' environment, I think I'll take my chances in the Oakland Hills-thank you very much.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

You can't compare Oakland to those cities. L.A is considered an Alpha"-" city based on the Globalization and World Cities Study Group and Network classification. NY is an Alpha++ and S.F is a Beta+. Oakland is not even ranked.

Oakland when it comes down to it doesn't have the cultural or global significance to be compared to true world cities like LA or NYC. Those cities are centers of cultural development, and important node points in this new era of global interdependence. They experience far more economic and social pressures than cities like Oakland do, so it's excusable for them to sometimes suffer erratic changes in crime rate, and economic well being.

Oakland on the other hand has been crime ridden, and economically poor for a very long time, and that cannot be explained by global factors, they are purely localized.

Talk to me after LA gets a football team.

Otherwise, basically by your logic, Brentwood is just as ghetto as Watts.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by Nineties Flava

What most people would mean when they say "great sense of community". People from all different walks of life, backgrounds, etc. willingly interact with each other everyday and 99% of the time nothing bad comes of it. (For example) yesterday I walked down MacArthur Blvd going to the Subway on Fruitvale and a 60 year old white lady asked me where the nearest bus stop was (across the street from Sybell's Pizza) which turned into a 10 minute conversation on what AC Transit could do to better serve Oakland. This was somebody I didn't know from Adam and I'm a high-school age black male who dresses in "hip hop" clothing. Two days ago I was getting takeout at Jade Palace on MacArthur and was about to leave with the food when someone I also didnt know from Adam stopped me because he noticed that I hadn't gotten exact change, which I was thinking in the back of my mind but decided that I had miscounted it. When I was on the 11 going to downtown from the fruitvale bus stop and I accidentally (and unknowingly) dropped 10 dollars while fishing out change for the bus, at the next red light the bus driver got up and gave me the $10 himself.

This is exactly the kind of friendliness that I DID NOT see in places like Palo Alto and Menlo Park. In the Peninsula, poor minorities are often pitted against other poor minorities and the wealthy, and its often that way because thats the way wealthy people want it to be. How else would you have a largely snooty town like Palo Alto next to a very impoverished town like EPA? Walking in downtown Palo Alto on University is annoying, to say the least... even when I was 10 or younger and wore more "normal" clothing, people held their purses tight and nearly hugged their children to death when I walked by and damn near made a show of it. This has never happened to me in Oakland; not even in the rich areas like Rockridge and Montclair. I didn't know any Asian people (not counting pacific islanders) before I lived in Oakland because in the south bay they often want nothing to do with other minorities (which is why you barely see any in the public school system).


I can barely even put into words just how much better Oakland is than living in the South Bay. RWC will always be where I'm from but Oakland already feels more like home.

But I think part of why Oakland seems friendlier to you is because the residents are used to having a larger Black population around them than say some parts of Palo Alto or Menlo Park.

[Mr. Fantastic]

In other words, Oakland is not one-dimensional.

That's great that you think that, but when one "dimension" doesn't interact with the other, then in essence, it is very one dimensional.

Ironic that you would talk to us about Financial Health when it was Orange County that actually FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY.

First off, we're talking about individual cities here, not counties. You can't change scope in a discussion, because if that made any sense, someone could say the entire state is bankrupt. For that matter, the country is becoming bankrupt.

Secondly, Orange County has a very different tax revenue system than most other counties. Individual cities are able to keep the majority of their own tax revenue within their own borders. So cities like Newport, MV, Laguna Hills, and the like are doing very well financially, while other cities like Santa Ana, Anaheim, Stanton, etc are suffering.

As if you could. Oakland is still an awesome place to live whether you think it is or not.

Okay, you know how to be a cheerleader, great. But you still have not commented on the economic and social division within Oakland itself and why most consider Oakland a very "unhealthy" city because of it.

The only dying is people gagging over themselves watching the Real Housewives of Orange County.

If that show is a microcosm of life in what you consider to be a 'healthy' environment, I think I'll take my chances in the Oakland Hills-thank you very much.

That TV show was meant for people like you. I don't spend much time watching TV, certainly not reality TV. I have better things to do.

But it's flattering that you spend your precious time watching TV shows about where I live.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Talk to me after LA gets a football team.

Otherwise, basically by your logic, Brentwood is just as ghetto as Watts.

No, you don't understand. I know it's hard for you personally to comprehend, but having a football team is not considered a very big factor in the global economic/political/cultural importance of a city.

Economic Factors that matter:
- Corporate HQ for multinational corporations, international financial institutions have a base there, amount of law firms, conglomerates, stock exchanges. Influence over the world economy in general.
- Significant financial capacity/output: city/regional
- stock market indices/market capitalization

Political Factors:
- Active influence on and participation in international events and world affairs; for example, Washington D.C, Beijing, and Berlin are major capitals of influential nations or unions.
- Hosting headquarters for int'l orgs (U.N, World Bank, Nato)
- A large proper, municipal population
- Diverse demographic constituencies;

Cultural Factors:
- International, first-name familiarity; whereby a city is recognized without the need for a political subdivision.
- Renowned cultural institutions (often with high endowments)
- Several influential media outlets with an international reach
- Well known, prestigious Educational institutions
- Tourism throughput

Those are only some of the factors used to rank true "world cities", and Oakland doesn't really rank significantly in any of the above factors.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

First off, we're talking about individual cities here, not counties. You can't change scope in a discussion, because if that made any sense, someone could say the entire state is bankrupt. For that matter, the country is becoming bankrupt.

Secondly, Orange County has a very different tax revenue system than most other counties. Individual cities are able to keep the majority of their own tax revenue within their own borders. So cities like Newport, MV, Laguna Hills, and the like are doing very well financially, while other cities like Santa Ana, Anaheim, Stanton, etc are suffering.

Orange County, in all its greatness, filed for bankruptcy.

Oakland, in its third world squalor, never has.

Point for the good guys.

Okay, you know how to be a cheerleader, great. But you still have not commented on the economic and social division within Oakland itself and why most consider Oakland a very "unhealthy" city because of it.

Once again pretending that Oakland is the only city with income disparity.

So you believe everyone should make the same amount of money-sounds like Socialism.

LOL

That TV show was meant for people like you. I don't spend much time watching TV, certainly not reality TV. I have better things to do.

That's obviously not true because you seem to have plenty of time to pencil into your schedule "Log on to City-Data and bash Oakland".

LOL

But it's flattering that you spend your precious time watching TV shows about where I live.

Its a freak show of false excess. I mean, they arent really rich. Instead its an endless parade of people who live way beyond their means and try to fight nature by mortgaging their homes just to get plastic surgery.

Their kids are ALL dysfunctional, totally materialistic, have no goals in life and are boozed up because their parents want to be their friends instead of their parents.

Like so many other vapid suburban hellholes. Its really quite sad but in the case of Orange County-splattered across Cable TV for all to see, like a gory accident scene that you want to look away from, but can't.

And you think that is superior to living anywhere in Oakland...no, I don't think so.

[18Montclair]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

No, you don't understand. I know it's hard for you personally to comprehend, but having a football team is not considered a very big factor in the global economic/political/cultural importance of a city.

Economic Factors that matter:
- Corporate HQ for multinational corporations, international financial institutions have a base there, amount of law firms, conglomerates, stock exchanges. Influence over the world economy in general.
- Significant financial capacity/output: city/regional
- stock market indices/market capitalization

Political Factors:
- Active influence on and participation in international events and world affairs; for example, Washington D.C, Beijing, and Berlin are major capitals of influential nations or unions.
- Hosting headquarters for int'l orgs (U.N, World Bank, Nato)
- A large proper, municipal population
- Diverse demographic constituencies;

Cultural Factors:
- International, first-name familiarity; whereby a city is recognized without the need for a political subdivision.
- Renowned cultural institutions (often with high endowments)
- Several influential media outlets with an international reach
- Well known, prestigious Educational institutions
- Tourism throughput

Those are only some of the factors used to rank true "world cities", and Oakland doesn't really rank significantly in any of the above factors.

Still, by your logic, Brentwood by virtue of being part of LA, is crap because its also in the same city as Watts.

[Gentoo]

If you could post pictures of "crime infested ghetto" parts of Newport, you would. Don't kid yourself.

I think I already said that I don't know anything about Newport Beach. I get the feeling you don't either.

The question you have to ask yourself is it so easy to find pictures of homicide victims and ghetto hoods for Oakland?

Yes. Just as it is in LA or San Diego or Seattle or Chicago or New York or Berkeley or...you get the idea...we hope.

Oakland is socially and financially divided. Wealth isn't diffuse

No more than most other cities, your assessment is wrong.

This explains the social turmoil experienced in Oakland. A lot of you are saying "all this crime is isolated to one half of the city"

Social turmoil??? You're actually serious when you say this crap? And yes we are saying that the crime in Oakland is concentrated in a few key areas. That's what we've all been trying to get through to you. You don't believe this because you've chosen not to. However the reality remains what it is despite your desperate attempt to change it.

Many here acknowledge the crime and poor, but then go on and say "We avoid the poor, crime filled areas, and visit the nicer places like Fruitvale. The hills have great $1,000,000 homes!" Avoidance and isolation are not signs of a healthy city as well.

This entire statement proves what little you know about the city LOL You just killed yourself with this one.

The point being, Oakland residents are desensitized to what's happening only minutes away from them, and have conveniently used "it's only bad people dying" as their excuse. When people simply don't care, that's when everything is lost.

You're wrong again. Many of us in here ARE NOT Oakland residents so your theory of being desensitized doesn't hold water. I live in a very safe city and go back to Oakland several times a year. If you were right, I would see this contrast like night and day. Anymore more "theories?"

I didn't come here to bash Oakland

Oh just stop now man. You are really making yourself look retarded.

It's unhealthy, and dying

Just like your mental health.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastic

But I think part of why Oakland seems friendlier to you is because the residents are used to having a larger Black population around them than say some parts of Palo Alto or Menlo Park.

I think we're starting to get somewhere now. What's your real reason for not liking Oakland?