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My husband opened a law firm in an east bay suburb. His firm is part of a larger firm based in Southern California. The firm incentivizes their attorneys to bill more through a pretty lucrative bonus structure and all of the So Cal attorneys take advantage of it and end up billing way more than there minimum requirements, and as a result can significantly pad their base salaries.
Unfortunately, none of the bay area attorneys ever bill more than their required minimums, and see no reason to bill more. If they even bill a few hours more, they feel like they are rock stars, but unfortunately they are the lowest billers in the entire firm of over 50 lawyers. When asked why they dont want to make more money by billing more, they respond w/ well...how many hours am I supposed to bill? I met my minimum requirement.
Now...this is not an isolated individual...this is ALL the lawyers working in the Northern California office. Its like they have no hustle and are content with doing the bare minimum. They do not care to compete or make more money.
When we first moved up here right off the bat we noticed that stores do not open as early or stay open as late as they do in Socal. Stores will also close during business hours sometimes if they feel like it...similar to Greece or Italy. This never happens in LA. We also noticed many professional service people do not work regular schedules , but weird complicated schedules, and the quality of work product is not as high as what we were used to in LA, yet charge the same or more as LA, and seem to stay busy enough to force you to fit into their schedule vs. the clients needs being met. This is everyone from doctors, hair dressers, house keepers, child care professionals, personal trainers, accountants, any service person.
We have gone into restaurants and they will close early on a friday night and not seat you even if they are supposed to stay open another 1/2 hour and people are still in the restaurant. I also find that salespeople in stores act like they are doing you a favor to help you.
I'm curious if anyone has noticed that people in the bay area do not have the same "hustle" when it comes to their careers or as strong a work ethic as they do in Southern California?
I really don't get it because the cost of living is just as high or higher here so I would assume people would want to make more money if given the opportunity? Is everyone independently wealthy?
The problem we are having is that the SoCal offices cannot fathom why people don't want to work more in order to make more money since the formula works so well down there, and all the lawyers take advantage of the bonus plan.
Can someone please enlighten me? We cannot figure it out, but believe it is a part of the culture up here to be more laid back when it comes to working.
Is there anywhere in the bay area where people (lawyers in particular) would be wiling to work harder and smarter in order to make more money?
My husband opened a law firm in an east bay suburb. His firm is part of a larger firm based in Southern California. The firm incentivizes their attorneys to bill more through a pretty lucrative bonus structure and all of the So Cal attorneys take advantage of it and end up billing way more than there minimum requirements, and as a result can significantly pad their base salaries.
Unfortunately, none of the bay area attorneys ever bill more than their required minimums, and see no reason to bill more. If they even bill a few hours more, they feel like they are rock stars, but unfortunately they are the lowest billers in the entire firm of over 50 lawyers. When asked why they dont want to make more money by billing more, they respond w/ well...how many hours am I supposed to bill? I met my minimum requirement.
Now...this is not an isolated individual...this is ALL the lawyers working in the Northern California office. Its like they have no hustle and are content with doing the bare minimum. They do not care to compete or make more money.
When we first moved up here right off the bat we noticed that stores do not open as early or stay open as late as they do in Socal. Stores will also close during business hours sometimes if they feel like it...similar to Greece or Italy. This never happens in LA. We also noticed many professional service people do not work regular schedules , but weird complicated schedules, and the quality of work product is not as high as what we were used to in LA, yet charge the same or more as LA, and seem to stay busy enough to force you to fit into their schedule vs. the clients needs being met. This is everyone from doctors, hair dressers, house keepers, child care professionals, personal trainers, accountants, any service person.
We have gone into restaurants and they will close early on a friday night and not seat you even if they are supposed to stay open another 1/2 hour and people are still in the restaurant. I also find that salespeople in stores act like they are doing you a favor to help you.
I'm curious if anyone has noticed that people in the bay area do not have the same "hustle" when it comes to their careers or as strong a work ethic as they do in Southern California?
I really don't get it because the cost of living is just as high or higher here so I would assume people would want to make more money if given the opportunity? Is everyone independently wealthy?
The problem we are having is that the SoCal offices cannot fathom why people don't want to work more in order to make more money since the formula works so well down there, and all the lawyers take advantage of the bonus plan.
Can someone please enlighten me? We cannot figure it out, but believe it is a part of the culture up here to be more laid back when it comes to working.
Is there anywhere in the bay area where people (lawyers in particular) would be wiling to work harder and smarter in order to make more money?
The way you put it, sounds like Northern Californians are somehow morally. superior to Southern Californians since you assert that SoCal people work harder, smarter, know how to milk more out of regular folk. Or perhaps your assertion is true and we Northern Californians are so vastly different that we realize that there's more to life than making $$. I highly doubt either of those statements are true.
I notice plenty expensive houses/cars/etc...people (not just lawyers) working their butts off to pay the mortgage, finance their lifestyle. I'm doubtful that people are not making enough by not screwing clients out of more.
As for stores/restaurants closing early--never experienced that in my entire life (and yes, I mean high end). I suppose if a restaurant is struggling (especially in this economy) then it wouldn't be economically advantageous to stay open when nobody's walking in to eat.
Salespeople can be rude wherever you go..you seem to be asserting that snobs don't exist in the Neiman Marcus or Bloomingdale's in So Cal.. Perhaps you are giving off a snob vibe? You seem to be giving one off here imo.
My husband opened a law firm in an east bay suburb. His firm is part of a larger firm based in Southern California. The firm incentivizes their attorneys to bill more through a pretty lucrative bonus structure and all of the So Cal attorneys take advantage of it and end up billing way more than there minimum requirements, and as a result can significantly pad their base salaries.
Unfortunately, none of the bay area attorneys ever bill more than their required minimums, and see no reason to bill more. If they even bill a few hours more, they feel like they are rock stars, but unfortunately they are the lowest billers in the entire firm of over 50 lawyers. When asked why they dont want to make more money by billing more, they respond w/ well...how many hours am I supposed to bill? I met my minimum requirement.
Now...this is not an isolated individual...this is ALL the lawyers working in the Northern California office. Its like they have no hustle and are content with doing the bare minimum. They do not care to compete or make more money.
When we first moved up here right off the bat we noticed that stores do not open as early or stay open as late as they do in Socal. Stores will also close during business hours sometimes if they feel like it...similar to Greece or Italy. This never happens in LA. We also noticed many professional service people do not work regular schedules , but weird complicated schedules, and the quality of work product is not as high as what we were used to in LA, yet charge the same or more as LA, and seem to stay busy enough to force you to fit into their schedule vs. the clients needs being met. This is everyone from doctors, hair dressers, house keepers, child care professionals, personal trainers, accountants, any service person.
We have gone into restaurants and they will close early on a friday night and not seat you even if they are supposed to stay open another 1/2 hour and people are still in the restaurant. I also find that salespeople in stores act like they are doing you a favor to help you.
I'm curious if anyone has noticed that people in the bay area do not have the same "hustle" when it comes to their careers or as strong a work ethic as they do in Southern California?
I really don't get it because the cost of living is just as high or higher here so I would assume people would want to make more money if given the opportunity? Is everyone independently wealthy?
The problem we are having is that the SoCal offices cannot fathom why people don't want to work more in order to make more money since the formula works so well down there, and all the lawyers take advantage of the bonus plan.
Can someone please enlighten me? We cannot figure it out, but believe it is a part of the culture up here to be more laid back when it comes to working.
Is there anywhere in the bay area where people (lawyers in particular) would be wiling to work harder and smarter in order to make more money?
7 Million people live here, everybody has their own way of doing things. Generalizing everybody really makes no sense, especially since there are thousands of lawyers here who work very hard along with everybody else who works hard to survive. I'm not sure how many doctors you know either because doctors cannot get lazy or they can lose their license for malpractice, especially residents and new grad physicians so I'm not sure who you're meeting.
I'm honestly really surprised by the original post. The Bay Area is a big region made up of nine counties and over 7 million people. Maybe the area you're in just happens to have more slower-paced (or more balanced) people.
I've always found that most places I've been in the Bay Area, especially San Jose/Silicon Valley, are filled with complete workaholics. Whenever I go on vacation I'm able to decompress...and within a couple of days of being back here, my life is once again hectic. Again, maybe it's just the area you're in, but for me growing up in the South Bay I've been used to being around people who only live to work. Back in 1999, around the time of the high-tech bubble, I had a good friend who's parents owned a small computer hardware company...they actually slept most nights at work! They would come home for literally just a few hours a week.
Another one of my good friends lived in San Diego back in 2007 and she would actually get annoyed at work because it seemed that everybody around her was lazy. People just seemed to move at a much slower pace and were too laid back from what she was used to living in the Bay Area.
What in interesting tale. Yes, SoCal and NorCal are 2 different states, but your take on this is extremely myopic.
That's a very big brush your dragged up here with you. Let me borrow it for a second and I'll paint a broad generalization for you:
Our lawyers in NorCal are ethically superior to SoCal lawyers. Their "sharkiness" is tempered by the
bizarre concept of the quality of life having more meaning than some extra cash.
My husband opened a law firm in an east bay suburb. His firm is part of a larger firm based in Southern California. The firm incentivizes their attorneys to bill more through a pretty lucrative bonus structure and all of the So Cal attorneys take advantage of it and end up billing way more than there minimum requirements, and as a result can significantly pad their base salaries.
Unfortunately, none of the bay area attorneys ever bill more than their required minimums, and see no reason to bill more. If they even bill a few hours more, they feel like they are rock stars, but unfortunately they are the lowest billers in the entire firm of over 50 lawyers. When asked why they dont want to make more money by billing more, they respond w/ well...how many hours am I supposed to bill? I met my minimum requirement.
Now...this is not an isolated individual...this is ALL the lawyers working in the Northern California office. Its like they have no hustle and are content with doing the bare minimum. They do not care to compete or make more money.
When we first moved up here right off the bat we noticed that stores do not open as early or stay open as late as they do in Socal. Stores will also close during business hours sometimes if they feel like it...similar to Greece or Italy. This never happens in LA. We also noticed many professional service people do not work regular schedules , but weird complicated schedules, and the quality of work product is not as high as what we were used to in LA, yet charge the same or more as LA, and seem to stay busy enough to force you to fit into their schedule vs. the clients needs being met. This is everyone from doctors, hair dressers, house keepers, child care professionals, personal trainers, accountants, any service person.
We have gone into restaurants and they will close early on a friday night and not seat you even if they are supposed to stay open another 1/2 hour and people are still in the restaurant. I also find that salespeople in stores act like they are doing you a favor to help you.
I'm curious if anyone has noticed that people in the bay area do not have the same "hustle" when it comes to their careers or as strong a work ethic as they do in Southern California?
I really don't get it because the cost of living is just as high or higher here so I would assume people would want to make more money if given the opportunity? Is everyone independently wealthy?
The problem we are having is that the SoCal offices cannot fathom why people don't want to work more in order to make more money since the formula works so well down there, and all the lawyers take advantage of the bonus plan.
Can someone please enlighten me? We cannot figure it out, but believe it is a part of the culture up here to be more laid back when it comes to working.
Is there anywhere in the bay area where people (lawyers in particular) would be wiling to work harder and smarter in order to make more money?
I'm not from here, and I get what you're saying. There is a more laid back feeling.
The other thing is no one is on time for ANYTHING. My hairdresser is always making me wait 15 minutes or more, so I've become slack about when I show up. I've been to weddings that start late (we're talking an hour or more!) meetings that start late, people that flake...
I remember when I held a job job (I'm self employed now) people treated the start time like it was a suggestion.
And now, when we go to buildings to bid on the contract, we can't believe that they are actually paying people to clean them at that moment. Dusty old spider webs, thick dust on fire extinguisher boxes and unit number plates and in corners so you know when they are vacuuming the are just rolling down the hall.
I've always found that people say they work MUCH harder than they actually do. The old 80/20 rule. 20 percent of the people do 80 percent of the work.
I don't know about hustling for billable hours, but according to simplyhired.com, the average attorney in the Bay Area makes more than the average attorney in LA. $75K vs $63K
There is a difference between "work ethic" and "hustle", and you only need so much money. Not only isn't this a NorCal/SoCal thing, I don't even see a real question here.
I don't know about hustling for billable hours, but according to simplyhired.com, the average attorney in the Bay Area makes more than the average attorney in LA. $75K vs $63K
That 75K makes up for the difference in cost of living. For all intents and purposes its the basically the same, there is little or no net gain in terms of disposable income.
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7 Million people live here, everybody has their own way of doing things. Generalizing everybody really makes no sense, especially since there are thousands of lawyers here who work very hard along with everybody else who works hard to survive. I'm not sure how many doctors you know either because doctors cannot get lazy or they can lose their license for malpractice, especially residents and new grad physicians so I'm not sure who you're meeting.
For all intents and purposes its the basically the same, there is little or no net gain in terms of disposable income.
