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Guilt by association! Remember the Republican presidential primary debates where less than half raised their hand when questioned if they believed in evolution? That was all it took to realize that Republicans are either dumb or tolerate those that are merely for votes. which is worse!
And, while all republicans may not be that way, the ones that aren't make little to know effort to separate themselves from the loud ones that are like that. Therefore I believe they deserve that guilt by association.
I'm currently in the Bay Area and I really am not seeing this softness nor the other nonsense these bay haters keep talking about. I'll let you all know if this changes LOL
We, too, were relocated here last year and it has been a bit of a culture shock, although I imagine our west coast counterparts who were relocated to the east coast are having a worse shock than we did, lol! NYC isn't for the faint of heart.
We love it here, however. Sure, people can be a bit too laid-back (if that's what you mean by "soft"), and they can be a bit closed-minded about people who aren't as liberal as they might be, but, hey, we're from NYC, so we're pretty thick-skinned.
The weather (especially this winter) is great, the area is breath-takingly gorgeous, the restaurants are excellent, opportunities for outdoor activities (running, hiking, biking, kayaking) abound, and the people are pretty darned nice, all in all.
One thing that we find upsetting, in comparison, is the homeless issue. In the six months we've been here, even we have seen an uptick in the level of aggression among the homeless population. There is ZERO police presence on the streets to counteract the ever-increasing homeless population.
Another odd difference is that San Francisco is filthy. It's one of the dirtiest cities I've ever been in. There is dog poo (we can only hope it's dog poo, anyway...) EVERYWHERE, and there is a lot of trash in the streets, especially cigarette butts.
Final complaint -- taxicabs -- GET SOME!!!
All in all, however, SF is a great city set in one the most beautiful pieces of country in the world. We're enjoying our time here and we have great neighbors and great co-workers and are very happy to be here.
... Our Victorians/Edwardians aren't warm enough.
There's not modern hook ups for all dishwashers/washing machines etc..
Everything is closed early
People are mean
Too many homeless
Too many poor..oh wait.. I mean too many wealthy..
Violence..people waiting around the corner to stab you while handling pit bulls, people trying to beat you up on MUNI
public transport is horrible.
people are too laid back..oh wait..too workaholic, too materialistic..oh, they aren't goal oriented..slackers, too busy
Too liberal, too many gays etc..
Now hold on there! All of those attributes (with the exception of the "laid back" one and stabbing with pit bulls) have been copyrighted by Boston (registered trademark) and I'm now going to have to file for a patent infringement!
Written by an Easterner with a sense of irony that - I know - will be completely lost on "soft" San Franciscans
I have a theory as to why this difference exists. A goodly percentage of the people here are relos from NYC and other large Eastern metros. If you think about it, what sorts of people might want to relo here? Ones who are outcasts or misfits in those Eastern places would be among them - not all of them, but a goodly percentage. So, we've grown into a metro that includes a significant fraction of people who were outcasts and misfits in large Eastern urban areas. No offense to anyone, but to be a misfit in those sorts of liberal places, one would have to be fairly odd. There you have it.
What a fascinating topic!
Yours was a very well reasoned post and, while I'm skeptical on the extent to which Western US "liberalism" relies on "dangerous" crackpot anti-Western "Fascist" beliefs, I have to believe that - if you are indeed right - a great deal of that kind of thinking may be based on the fact that California is much closer to (ethnically anyway), and therefore more influenced by, Asian nations than European ones. But, that's just a theory.
In any case, your post is very interesting and though provoking. And, your basic analysis of the differences between the Eastern and Western US personality is right on target (in a very general way).
If what you are suggesting is tolerance of ignorance then, yes, California, and the Bay Area in particular are not tolerant. It's interesting that Republicans & those who believe that the world is 6000 yrs old and that gay people are the devil, etc. get resentful that the rest of society not only rejects what they believe but ridicule them as oafs. That will never change. Stupidity will always be unacceptable to anybody with a brain.
Clap clap clap clap clap clap clap ... etc., ad nauseum! So well put, I wish I had the presence of mind to write my feelings on the subject so succinctly. Going on 30 years post-Reagan election, and I've lost all patience with ignorance on things that are as plain as the proverbial "nose on your face".
So glad I found this thread! It's been an entertaining evening
Now hold on there! All of those attributes (with the exception of the "laid back" one and stabbing with pit bulls) have been copyrighted by Boston (registered trademark) and I'm now going to have to file for a patent infringement!
Written by an Easterner with a sense of irony that - I know - will be completely lost on "soft" San Franciscans
Yeah its a shame really. Ya know, because we don't understand sarcasm and all.
Guilt by association! Remember the Republican presidential primary debates where less than half raised their hand when questioned if they believed in evolution? That was all it took to realize that Republicans are either dumb or tolerate those that are merely for votes. which is worse!
Total nonsense. Now I ask this of you. Are moderate democrats "guilty by association" to those in their party on the far-left who believe in communism? Ofcourse not. If it did, most of you and all Democrats would be guilty of being "communists" as well. The same logic applies to Republicans.
The Bay Area is not even "tolerant" towards libertarian ideas, which is mostly non-religious and mostly about smaller government. We're not talking about bible-thumping, creationist, crackpots here but smart, secular-oriented people. Even other secular groups who mostly disagree with progressives on fiscal issues are derided, mocked, and excluded. Basically everything but "tolerated".
Total nonsense. Now I ask this of you. Are moderate democrats "guilty by association" to those in their party on the far-left who believe in communism?
You know as well as everyone else that the democratic party does not function the same way the republican party does so that comparison doesn't hold water.
I originally moved to SF from New York city for a job (they paid for the relocation and such) a couple months ago. And man, its been a major culture shift which is ok I suppose. But also very irritating in a number of ways to a life long east coaster like myself. Almost to the point of making normal social interaction difficult because of over-PC ness.
"Sarcasm" seems to be lost on most people here. They all look at me with blank stares when I make a sarcastic joke or comment.
Say "thats gay" your called out as a homophobe.
People give you stares of disaproval if your the type of person that looks like to have somewhere to go, commitments to make, likes to dress up for business etc. Just no sense of working to "get ahead". What gives? Do people here just prefer others to be as miserable, non-goal oriented, aim-less and broke as they are?
Overall the people in this area seem to lack alot of aspects of character and tend to be very introverted and quiet. I also see theres less of an energy here. Everything from major stores to mom and pop shops to restaurants closes early and people don't seem to care. Even nightclubs close early (WTF?).
Anyways I was just venting. Personally I think the weather is great here, but I like the east coast better in terms of the relationships, people and the overall attitude of most people. I just gel well with folks who are more honest about themselves and know how to stick up for themselves without complaining or crying. Those types are usually laughed out of New York City. Its very soft.
How can people live like this day and day out and not go crazy?
/rant
I feel ya on that..about the saying "that's gay" shi# ...no one should be offended by saying youre gay or that's gay, but I'm from Florida so who knows what youre experiencing out there....maybe it's the social class of people u ran into so far or something...my cousins live out there and they get when i say sarcastic stuff too like we get it but maybe that's just my family or maybe it's the types of people u met out there....i know it's a culture shock moving from NY to SF as it is for me moving from MIAMI and Orlando to Nashville now but there are good people everywhere even though they don't understand where u came from....
we're all just different i guess ..just think about how blessed u are to have something in your memory that others might not have experienced as far as where u came from goes....that goes for everyone, but places with more of an open mind and less judgmental attitudes is where i wanna be for sure...Good luck man...I used to hate NY because we always played them in the KNICKS vs HEAT series and dolphins/jets series but all the New Yorkers I made friends with turned out to be cool people ..but i visited SF and have family there too and it is different from the south and east but that's all it is man...
i learned to see positives where i am in each place after moving 26 times in life even if tha new place isn't the place where i came from or the home i have in my heart...hating a place can really eat u up inside.....trust me i know from the past.
The east coast ... particularly the northeast and specifically NYC and its large surrounding area, Boston and much of MA, etc., (actually, all of Bos-wash -- the "corridor" from Boston all the way down to D.C.) ... has an edge, a sharpness, a quickness of speech and movement (and sharp intellect, depending), a toughness, a hardness, cynicism and sarcasm, defensiveness, etc., etc.. and if someone has been conditioned there (grew up there with that m.o.) and doesn't feel any need or desire to transform out of that agro / hyper ambitious way of being, then he/she will tend to have a difficult time in California and will have judgmental attitudes about other people being "soft".
It's a defensive posture because there is an awareness (consciously or not, usually not) of a deficiency ... that he/she doesn't know how to slow down, relax, open, "live and let live", be a bit more easy and at ease, "go with the flow", etc..
If he/she has been conditioned to be hard and constantly in a revved up and defensive posture and if he/she is used to living in a hyper stimulated environment where people are constantly running on adrenaline (which is mistaken for lots of energy) and are basically in a fight or flight mode, living in a new environment where people are more relaxed and less hyper and aggressive, can actually be very threatening.
It's a new and unknown world ... and unknown system that is radically different from the one he/she is familiar with and he/she doesn't know how to relate (sarcasm falls flat, cynical attitudes aren't welcome, etc.) ... doesn't know how to get into a new flow of things and so he/she will feel vulnerable, fearful (won't admit it of course ... isn't even conscious that it's so) and that's when anger comes up ... and venting and dissing people for being "soft".
Also, as driven and hyper as the northeast is, it's actually very conventional and though it's hugely populated and congested and impacted, it's somewhat stayed.
California (much of it), on the other hand, is very chaotic ... unstable, not as dug in and rooted in history, not as "old", not so certain and set in its ways, etc..
That chaos, combined with a more easy, "live and let live" approach to being in the world, can be very difficult for someone like the o.p..
That's just my take.
Right on. As for the adrenaline statement, that is related to the toxins which have built up in that area over the past century.
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which is worse!
